Re: [Hls-interest] Inclusive Language

[Jeremy Martin <[e-mail]>]

Bill speaks to a distinction that I wasn't quite sure how to articulate,
but to his point, I would mention that as an implementer I've never
understood "Master" in "Master Playlist" to imply a master/slave
relationship, either. There's no sense in which the Master Playlist
exhibits control, asymmetric or otherwise, over the Media Playlists that it
references.

Given the intent and the spirit in which these changes are proposed, I
don't hold any specific objections, but I do question if the original
contention, that "the HLS spec uses the word 'master' in a way which
implies master/slave" is, in fact, accurate?

Regards,

Jeremy Martin
Chief Technology Officer
Stream.Live

On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 9:29 AM May, Bill <Bill.May=
[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hi, all,
>
> As one of the authors of the specification, I can tell you that no
> master/slave relationship was ever intended.
>
> I do not believe that we have used the term “child” or “slave” anywhere in
> the HLS specifications or any of the drafts.  Or even considered those
> terms in any of our drafts.  If they exist, can you please point them so
> that they can be changed.
>
> We introduced “Rendition” in draft-07 (9/2011) and this has a particular
> meaning.
>
> In draft-11 (2013), we introduced the terms “Master Playlist” and starting
> consistently using “Media Playlist”.  We intended “Master Playlist”  to be
> used with “master” as an adjective rather than a noun or a verb, with its
> “chief or principal” definition (
> https://www.dictionary.com/browse/master?s=t , adjective, 2nd meaning,
> which gives the example “master list").
>
> Also note that everywhere in the specifications, we have always use
> “Master Playlist” as 1 unit and capitalized, and likewise always use “Media
> Playlist” as 1 unit and capitalized.  Consistency of naming is one thing
> that has made the HLS specification very friendly to read.
>
> The “Master Playlist” does not imply a master/slave relationship; it is
> contains a list of independent playlists and configurations that can be
> used together.  Each “Media Playlist” is an independent entity.
>
> As to changing the name, we’ve discussed it internally at DSS, and we do
> not feel that a change is required.
>
> We will not object if a change is made, however, and recommend the term
> “Presentation Playlist” as being more descriptive than any terms given so
> far.
>
> Thank you for the conversation.
>
> Bill May
> Engineering Fellow
> Disney Streaming Service
>
>
> On Jul 23, 2020, at 1:18 PM, Pope, Cooper <
> Cooper.Pope=[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> WarnerMedia fully supports a change.
>
> Personally, I think the new terminology would be more natural if the word
> "playlist" is only used to describe the media playlist. Therefore, it would
> be "playlist index" or "index"; and, "media playlist(s)" or "playlist(s)".
> Just something to consider.
>
> Thanks,
> Cooper
>
>
>
> *From: *Hls-interest <[e-mail]> on behalf of John
> Luther <jluther=[e-mail]>
> *Date: *Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 3:27 PM
> *To: *Joey Parrish <joeyparrish=[e-mail]>
> *Cc: *John Bartos <bartsjb=[e-mail]>, "
> [e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
> *Subject: *Re: [Hls-interest] Inclusive Language
>
> JW Player supports the renaming, preferring Index and Media.
>
> JL
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 2:47 PM Joey Parrish <joeyparrish=
> [e-mail]> wrote:
>
> I would support this change in naming.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 11:41 AM John Bartos <bartsjb=
> [e-mail]> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'd like to start a discussion about inclusive language in the HLS spec.
> At Twitch we are committed to using inclusive engineering terms. We believe
> that inclusive language creates an environment where everyone feels welcome
> and supported.
>
> As we've spread this awareness across the tech we use, I've noticed that
> the HLS spec uses the word "master" in a way which implies master/slave. I
> see this as contrary to our goals of inclusivity. It seems that we have
> already acknowledged this by changing "slave" to "child", but that is only
> a half measure.
>
> I'd like to see us do better. I expressed the above to the #video-dev
> community where I received broad support and some new ideas. Among them are:
>
>    - Main
>    - Index
>
> And for child:
>
>    - Media
>    - Rendition
>
>
> Let me know what you all think. Thanks to everyone who has offered input
> and support so far. I'm looking forward to a productive discussion.
>
> - John
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