Re: [homenet] Updates to Homenet Architecture Principles doc

Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> Thu, 12 June 2014 21:55 UTC

Return-Path: <jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr>
X-Original-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: homenet@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C1C11A02BC for <homenet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:55:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.55
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JYOSgIsJukOJ for <homenet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:55:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 955281A0095 for <homenet@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:55:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/46573) with ESMTP id s5CLtqQo017811; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 23:55:52 +0200
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB8D129A7CF; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 23:55:52 +0200 (CEST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr
Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id aj2B46VOXR3d; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 23:55:51 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from ijon.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 367A429A7C9; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 23:55:51 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 23:56:18 +0200
Message-ID: <87wqclssfx.wl%jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr>
From: Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr>
To: Ray Hunter <v6ops@globis.net>
In-Reply-To: <539A19AE.2080605@globis.net>
References: <BEB843C7-EB1D-486A-A9A1-B99D48775D33@nominet.org.uk> <539A19AE.2080605@globis.net>
User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9
MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue")
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Thu, 12 Jun 2014 23:55:52 +0200 (CEST)
X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 539A21E8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)!
X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 539A21E8.001 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/<jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr>
X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 539A21E8.001 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000
X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/homenet/N8h2OCfSb8AIDLBEbuFNIN2iVxA
Cc: "homenet@ietf.org Group" <homenet@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [homenet] Updates to Homenet Architecture Principles doc
X-BeenThere: homenet@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: <homenet.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/homenet/>
List-Post: <mailto:homenet@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet>, <mailto:homenet-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 21:55:59 -0000

>> Using information distributed through the routing protocol, each node
>> in the homenet should be able to build a graph of the topology of the
>> whole homenet including attributes such as links, nodes, connectivity,
>> and (if supported by the protocol in use) link metrics.

> Fine by me. Apart from the use of the word "graph" which could be
> overloaded or suggest a preference for link state
> protocols. s/graph/consistent view/ ?

I've already mentioned before that I'd just remove this whole sentence.
The goal of a routing protocol is to provide routes that are useful for
forwarding user traffic.  Whether it does that by building "a graph", "a
consistent view" or through haruspicy is pretty much an implementation
detail.

>> Routing within the homenet will determine the least cost path across
>> the homenet towards the destination address given the source address.

> Too explicit IMHO.

Multiple problems: inconsistent terminology (cost/metric), assumes the
existence of a metric, assumes that the protocol always chooses least
metric paths.  Just remove this sentence and be done with it.

> What is wrong with s/determine the least cost path across the homenet
> towards the destination address given the source address /maintain
> a loop free forwarding path between any given source address and
> destination pair/

Since we're being picky, this might be understood as excluding OSPF and
RIP, which may cause transient routing loops.  (Exceedingly short-lived in
any half-decent implementation of OSFP, granted.)

>> Multiple types of physical interfaces must be accounted for in the
>> homenet routed topology. 

> Fine be me.

I think I may have already mentioned that I'm really not sure what this
sentence means.  Does it mean that the routing protocol must be able to
automatically distinguish between wired and wireless links?  Have different
route selection/metric computation strategies depending on the link layer?
On either count, only Babel qualifies, which I'm pretty sure is not what
is intended.

>> but as a guideline a maximum convergence time at most 30 seconds should
>> be the target

> Way too explicit IMHO. I don't see why a figure of 30 seconds for
> convergence time is even given.

Heh.  If memory serves, RIP(ng) with triggered updates converges in
exactly 30 seconds, worst case.

(Snipped the part about border discovery, which I'm not competent to
comment on.)

> It might be worth adding that we do not expect LLN network to act as
> transit networks between more traditional areas of the Homenet if you
> are going to revise the text anyway.

Hmm... I'm pretty certain that people will use degenerate mesh networks
for transit once they realise it's a neat way to avoid laying wiring
between your home and the shack at the back of the garden.  Not sure about
LLNs, but I'd be nervous about including such language.

-- Juliusz