Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP

Jacob Champion <champion.p@gmail.com> Fri, 23 December 2016 17:14 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request+bounce-httpbisa-archive-bis2juki=lists.ie@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0016C1296D2 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 Dec 2016 09:14:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.101
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D0XhsKHVKmEm for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 Dec 2016 09:14:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B9161294B8 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Dec 2016 09:14:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1cKTO6-0005Tw-KH for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 23 Dec 2016 17:12:10 +0000
Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 17:12:10 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1cKTO6-0005Tw-KH@frink.w3.org>
Received: from titan.w3.org ([128.30.52.76]) by frink.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <champion.p@gmail.com>) id 1cKTNx-0005Ru-JW for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 23 Dec 2016 17:12:01 +0000
Received: from mail-qk0-f174.google.com ([209.85.220.174]) by titan.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <champion.p@gmail.com>) id 1cKTNw-0004vN-SJ for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Fri, 23 Dec 2016 17:12:01 +0000
Received: by mail-qk0-f174.google.com with SMTP id h201so8829681qke.1 for <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>; Fri, 23 Dec 2016 09:11:40 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PcA4k631Q6znaeWsniQ6uxZWkVQTfZ4C0M3qLZ1hxOI=; b=SKNbyoRtqebcpib/3K3SPkyyoBEmL56MsoRuUYlxwJTXvTQemYXv7UpRC01tT8sDQW wFoTE3OQdxgEf/KrPrPSN2ImLbuZxqIfzRVmlWLnQ6hG0YL/DSnt0wkNooRB1xy54Mk0 pouObqxlEhKB1BDgFuVRiaYdd4rRTzMzTI9gSqJOkcmcL47NFVNwKAY2iHTyMLbaFWyl MHgSHeXFxlFpdC+NwI4vzggDSAfkg6x+xBTIhL8HOPya/siiwJ+H7quWJxHDOeAkjB+A X1zfQe0inww80PKxJ9VArZ4B/SNDU2TpY2abMbcnQTN73FO0kWmiHbQLR7fAoqMiq+jT o/OQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PcA4k631Q6znaeWsniQ6uxZWkVQTfZ4C0M3qLZ1hxOI=; b=COAxuXS5Tbf8Q/Zmeb92L5q3ouaLCWU7XrEpTjJNnglm0AiONOvWvyhU8D8Gzg0JAe PblXX/CmlKfPKzqkCJkodfVsY/+0LOZO/J5IXE261MU252idqkzGtVFjo4y+KAKtSmAV MIkP+m/jHCPP+E1xpqIqQlYNKhhGcNqE/OUz9znBSRGVwFbivyxrywAmtdnSXr8bAygX vRh6UPDCKle/tW8LHc7CtlVGgrsVW2wseM/CT2cRgsvF1d/+QZ3QNL2vC8ECpYLkAWi3 PkYVbdPGvO7ZC/HPljRhw0bMA0j4g6QYJlIeWL4U0SlqOrghReBtZyOtrgRiSUSZYidL cWXw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXLPxdwS+WhE5sxMov/T/ZTJd/J6tOCGwNFA13OYMbQ5kzfEHFsS3T8rAcIiCDcpmQ==
X-Received: by 10.55.129.194 with SMTP id c185mr16052582qkd.0.1482513093807; Fri, 23 Dec 2016 09:11:33 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.128] (dynamic-acs-24-144-218-57.zoominternet.net. [24.144.218.57]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z7sm20590983qkz.7.2016.12.23.09.11.32 for <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 23 Dec 2016 09:11:33 -0800 (PST)
To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
References: <CAOdDvNqk7W_oNWUismMb-ZuhvdboZNDQ0YV2BLsbka-FGC-7oA@mail.gmail.com> <39F32B28-7116-478A-B02A-E8310EA6E189@mnot.net> <CABkgnnVZeLQGES5Dige8u+ukSgqSfJNKiCuL=oK3gQnAb_3LNw@mail.gmail.com> <CANatvzwoUYaC_YPTTF6fdwN5aOiwrttyH9Xj7xYVR1i1DZ27bA@mail.gmail.com> <037D2D57-7423-4375-9FEC-50B3106F42ED@mnot.net> <CANatvzx=mOQ3kE-vnvwNvD2w26+RNTueHgu7BhHLnJixn0vRcw@mail.gmail.com> <9e6f1a46-a782-a688-5b16-836d28032823@treenet.co.nz> <1480646012.4219.21.camel@warmcat.com> <CAOdDvNqShPUdu6zt-dPDpXm31eP2xX_dahrTr8JEbOOGQFFNSw@mail.gmail.com> <b9874e30-24dd-56d2-896b-aab2848638b5@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <CAOdDvNpixFvywEUHwomVzQW2pNT5+=gn2ZMEgNmGPMDNkVMr7w@mail.gmail.com> <CAD3-0rNk6XeBWZFPenSYPQLacowuk822oqpp2A-nRAySKx=hRQ@mail.gmail.com> <5048AF43-3809-4518-9158-62D45DCC56E1@mnot.net> <ad1fef78-f2eb-2066-5b2b-8226254c4a29@ninenines.eu>
From: Jacob Champion <champion.p@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b4dd3ea2-c326-8c2a-660f-cdb021a3f8ef@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 09:11:31 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <ad1fef78-f2eb-2066-5b2b-8226254c4a29@ninenines.eu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.220.174; envelope-from=champion.p@gmail.com; helo=mail-qk0-f174.google.com
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, W3C_AA=-1, W3C_WL=-1
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: titan.w3.org 1cKTNw-0004vN-SJ 9ea1a0b71735a499f73bd091f8552ff1
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/b4dd3ea2-c326-8c2a-660f-cdb021a3f8ef@gmail.com>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/33239
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

On 12/23/2016 07:28 AM, Loïc Hoguin wrote:
> The three bigger Websocket users I have seen are:
>
> * browsers;
> * phone applications;
> * servers
>
> Excluding Websocket sub protocols, generally the pattern is the same: a
> server has an HTTP API and some of that API is implemented using
> Websocket to allow the server to push data to the client.

+1. This can be extended past phone applications, to any 
embedded/headless target. If you already have an HTTP+WS API in place 
for browsers and you want e.g. your embedded sensor to speak to it too, 
just use one of the many standalone WebSocket client libraries (Python, 
C++, whatever) and have the server point your target to the WS endpoint.

I think Crossbar (from the same people who made the Autobahn|TestSuite, 
which many WS implementations validate themselves with) is a concrete 
example of an architecture built on top of WebSocket but partially 
targeted at IoT embedded clients.

> The same-origin only seems useful for browsers in practice, I have not
> seen it applied elsewhere.

I haven't either. IIRC, RFC 6455 calls out that Origin isn't necessary 
for non-user-agents, since those clients are acting on their own behalf.

--Jacob