Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes
Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> Thu, 02 February 2017 01:16 UTC
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From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
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Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2017 12:12:56 +1100
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Subject: Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes
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> On 1 Feb 2017, at 9:11 pm, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> wrote: > > These seem like good changes in principle. I've left a few comments > on the PR that say much the same as below... > > On 1 February 2017 at 17:50, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> wrote: >> - Removes the requirement for a supporting client to check DNS to determine if the server is authoritative, when ORIGIN is received > > You should do something about http:// resources. This means that this > is a perfect http:// hijacking mechanism. I don't think that was the > intent. I would prefer if this were limited to HTTPS, which at least > leaves certificate validation. Yes. IIRC our final position on this with oppsec was that http can't be coalesced; this doc should reinforce that. We should also point out that this only works on h2, not h2c. >> - Redefines the initial Origin Set as whatever SNI included (if anything). > > If you do support this feature, the second change leads to having no > valid origins initially if you don't use SNI. It also could be read > to prohibit coalescing as we do today. Presumably the set is whatever > we have today until you see an ORIGIN frame. You should probably say > something about that. Ah, you fell into my carefully laid trap... I'll adjust the text. >> Some people have also been talking about simplifying ORIGIN, e.g., by removing some of the set operations. I think we should talk about that on list first. > > Let me put my stake in the ground. > > The current design is just a little too complicated. The ability to > clear the set and remove from the set is where a lot of that > complexity comes from. > > Let's say that if you want to start over, then you really start over: > make a new connection in that case. The need to remove is greatly > diminished by starting with a very small set. If you do need to > cleave off an origin after previously advertising it, then ALTSVC is > available and much more graceful than anything this provides. Removal > - as specified - is still subject to races and therefore violence, > since there is no acknowledgment. The big use case for this is wildcard certs; origins that use them need a way to say "everything except *those*", which means removal. It also means we need either a wildcard mechanism, or some way to say "everything covered by the cert." I don't buy the argument that removal itself adds complexity. Implementations already need to remember what origins they received a 421 for, so they already have the concept of origin set removal. Cheers, -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/
- ORIGIN - suggested changes Mark Nottingham
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Martin Thomson
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Frederik Deweerdt
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Martin Thomson
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Martin Thomson
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Nick Sullivan
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Mark Nottingham
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Martin Thomson
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Mark Nottingham
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Stefan Eissing
- RE: ORIGIN - suggested changes Mike Bishop
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Stefan Eissing
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Mark Nottingham
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Stefan Eissing
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Patrick McManus
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Mark Nottingham
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Patrick McManus
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Stefan Eissing
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Mark Nottingham
- Re: ORIGIN - suggested changes Frederik Deweerdt