Re: [hybi] Frame size

Roberto Peon <fenix@google.com> Fri, 16 April 2010 16:49 UTC

Return-Path: <fenix@google.com>
X-Original-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC4C528C14A for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:49:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -100.769
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.769 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.207, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Ew3-IBGH2l7 for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:49:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp-out.google.com (smtp-out.google.com [74.125.121.35]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9405D28C11F for <hybi@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:49:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wpaz24.hot.corp.google.com (wpaz24.hot.corp.google.com [172.24.198.88]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id o3GGnlAk030326 for <hybi@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:49:48 +0200
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=beta; t=1271436588; bh=1zwtdP3jYRmXYdiLzN0oLPejwTk=; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID:Subject:From: To:Cc:Content-Type; b=LklS16LiyPvQlpM41qy7GZa/VnaqPhjVIcFmidY8OfDjlY2k104FhYG9fdC/kJ2TX WzAB5BVfGrsgpyDt+eBHg==
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=beta; d=google.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to: cc:content-type:x-system-of-record; b=vG5j88OZXRWWnS8D5qZ4/CNYHgHA3G8Eb6eZblcpSNSm7/qqrdVO1AJTv9mRRDIA2 x5S7osXaynVSwPnkoyqEg==
Received: from yxe1 (yxe1.prod.google.com [10.190.2.1]) by wpaz24.hot.corp.google.com with ESMTP id o3GGnkhP010683 for <hybi@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:49:46 -0700
Received: by yxe1 with SMTP id 1so1624934yxe.33 for <hybi@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:49:46 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.150.184.18 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:49:46 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <4BC85A31.6060605@webtide.com>
References: <8B0A9FCBB9832F43971E38010638454F03E3F313ED@SISPE7MB1.commscope.com> <v2m5c902b9e1004160043i7b5ccc79y2346e1b2b2c55cf5@mail.gmail.com> <s2qad99d8ce1004160053w436a29b1idae0c66737b3760a@mail.gmail.com> <4BC85A31.6060605@webtide.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:49:46 -0700
Received: by 10.150.173.8 with SMTP id v8mr1986257ybe.338.1271436586375; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:49:46 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <t2iad99d8ce1004160949yb1ba9582l3b626c19dacf8d9@mail.gmail.com>
From: Roberto Peon <fenix@google.com>
To: Greg Wilkins <gregw@webtide.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000e0cd5ca1415dc2f04845d6638"
X-System-Of-Record: true
Cc: Hybi <hybi@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hybi] Frame size
X-BeenThere: hybi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Server-Initiated HTTP <hybi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi>
List-Post: <mailto:hybi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 16:49:58 -0000

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 5:38 AM, Greg Wilkins <gregw@webtide.com> wrote:

>
>
> I thought one of the key arguments for a limited frame size,
> is that we could avoid the need to consider end points that
> could not store an entire frame in a buffer at once.
>

Why would you need to do that?


>
> So 2 byte's can still result in a 64k maximum frame size that
> some devices might baulk at... but not many.
>

"not many" probably isn't good enough. For the protocol to be a success it
needs to work reliably. For clients/servers, that implies that they should
be able to start processing before the entire frame has been received. For
proxies you just stream the data.. unes you're doing multiplexing for
people, in which case you have other concerns.

-=R


>
> However, if frame sizes were 4 bytes or more, then we have the
> issue that all end points will have a restriction of frame size
> that can be held in a buffer that is smaller than the maximal.
> We then need error handling for when a frame that is too large
> is offered etc.
>
> So if we are going to limit it, then is should be small
> enough so we can say that all websocket endpoints must
> be able to accept a minimal frame.
>
> In fact, I would argue for a 16k max frame size with 2
> bits given over to help with partitioning and aggregation,
> but with no requirement that an endpoint can handle
> aggregation and partitioning (unless they indicate they
> can in the handshake).
>
> cheers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> hybi mailing list
> hybi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi
>