Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes
David Booth <david@dbooth.org> Wed, 09 September 2009 13:33 UTC
Return-Path: <david@dbooth.org>
X-Original-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD1F63A67A8 for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 06:33:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.98
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.98 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kmjBq9XANkOq for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 06:33:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from relay00.pair.com (relay00.pair.com [209.68.5.9]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 28B9328C38D for <hybi@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 06:33:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 63309 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2009 13:33:59 -0000
Received: from 192.35.79.70 (HELO ?10.78.165.46?) (192.35.79.70) by relay00.pair.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2009 13:33:59 -0000
X-pair-Authenticated: 192.35.79.70
From: David Booth <david@dbooth.org>
To: "Daniel R. Tobias" <dan@tobias.name>
In-Reply-To: <4AA6FA1C.23321.190CED7D@dan.tobias.name>
References: <OF22CD1320.96C55266-ON85257610.004AB599-85257610.004BC9CA@lotus.com> , <4AA2A630.32731.824DABF@dan.tobias.name> , <1252444455.16404.646.camel@dbooth-laptop> <4AA6FA1C.23321.190CED7D@dan.tobias.name>
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 09:33:58 -0400
Message-Id: <1252503238.16404.704.camel@dbooth-laptop>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: URI <uri@w3.org>, hybi@ietf.org, uri-review@ietf.org, Toby Inkster <mail@tobyinkster.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes
X-BeenThere: hybi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Server-Initiated HTTP <hybi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi>
List-Post: <mailto:hybi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 13:33:52 -0000
On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 20:43 -0400, Daniel R. Tobias wrote: > On 8 Sep 2009 at 17:14, David Booth wrote: > > > You seem to have missed the point. A string like > > "http://websockets.net/" is not *intrinsically* tied to the Web Sockets > > protocol any more than the string "wss: is. It only becomes tied to the > > Web Sockets protocol if the social entity that has the *authority* to > > decree such a link does so. In the case of "wss:", that authority > > belongs to the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA). In the case > > of "http://websockets.net/" that authority belongs to the owner of > > websockets.net. (See Architecture of the World Wide Web section > > 2.2.2.1: > > http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#def-uri-ownership ) > > The principle is *exactly* the same. > > Not really, to me at least. That would be like saying that because > you own that particular horse, you can declare its tail to be a leg > even if the general community of experts in horses and biology in > general have a definition of legs that it doesn't meet. > > Since I own the dan.info domain, I get to define what any particular > URI within it (or its subdomains), like http://dan.info/FooBarBaz/ or > http://foo.bar.baz.dan.info/Some.Silly.Stuff, resolves to under the > HTTP protocol (or whatever other protocol might be referenced in the > URI scheme, like https://dan.info/Something.Else or > ftp://dan.info/OtherJunk/). I can make it resolve to a picture of > me, a picture of a horse, a political rant, a redirect to a different > URI, a 404 Not Found error, or not resolve at all because the > hostname has no DNS record. Right. > It doesn't, however, give me the right or > power to insist that the definition of the "http" scheme or its > associated protocol doesn't apply to my URIs, and instead those > particular URIs should be resolved using my own "FooBarBaz" protocol. You're missing the point about *layering*. You are correct that you don't have the authority to *revoke* the HTTP semantics of your URI. Rather, your new FooBarBaz semantics would be *layered* (non-destructively) on top of the HTTP semantics. A FooBarBaz URI would still have its HTTP semantics -- that's the whole point; that's what makes this layering technique useful -- but it *also* acquires FooBarBaz semantics. The FooBarBaz semantics will only be used by those agents that recognize your "http://dan.info/FooBarBaz/" URI prefix as having special significance. Those agents could safely ignore the additional FooBarBaz semantics if they chose, and merely fall back to the HTTP semantics as non-FooBarBaz-aware agents must do. But presumably they will get additional benefit if they choose to recognize the FooBarBaz semantics and use the FooBarBaz protocol. In short, every FooBarBaz URI is also an http URI, just as every http URI is also a URI. -- David Booth, Ph.D. Cleveland Clinic (contractor) Opinions expressed herein are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of Cleveland Clinic.
- [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Maciej Stachowiak
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Chris Anderson
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Mark Nottingham
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Pieter Hintjens
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes David Booth
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes David Booth
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Kristof Zelechovski
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Kristof Zelechovski
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Kristof Zelechovski
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes David Booth
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Kristof Zelechovski
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Maciej Stachowiak
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Maciej Stachowiak
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Maciej Stachowiak
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes David Booth
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes David Orchard
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Roy T. Fielding
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes David Booth
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Kristof Zelechovski
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes noah_mendelsohn
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Toby Inkster
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Křištof Želechovski
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Erik Wilde
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes noah_mendelsohn
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes John Kemp
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes noah_mendelsohn
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Mark Nottingham
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Erik Wilde
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes noah_mendelsohn
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes noah_mendelsohn
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Kristof Zelechovski
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Toby Inkster
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes David Booth
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Kristof Zelechovski
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Kristof Zelechovski
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes David Booth
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Toby Inkster
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes David Booth
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Kristof Zelechovski
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Křištof Želechovski
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Křištof Želechovski
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Joseph A Holsten
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Joseph A Holsten
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Joseph A Holsten
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Daniel R. Tobias
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Daniel R. Tobias
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Daniel R. Tobias
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Lisa Dusseault
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Infinity Linden
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Lloyd Wood
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Kristof Zelechovski
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Roy T. Fielding
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] [Uri-review] ws: and wss: schemes Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [hybi] ws: and wss: schemes Ian Hickson