Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Documents (term)
Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net> Mon, 05 April 2021 23:11 UTC
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Subject: Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Documents (term)
To: ietf@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20210401013907.0b3b7fe8@elandnews.com>
From: Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net>
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Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 19:11:08 -0400
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For some reason I can't find the original announcement, so I'll just do this bare. Given the general language of RFC 2418, my best take is that _*it's inappropriate for the IETF to charter a working group on this topic*_. It's not a technical topic, and it does not fit the general WG model. To my best recollection (which means I may have missed one), we've never chartered a WG solely for the purpose of writing documents that purport to modify the way the IETF does business. Such documents have usually come either as IESG / IAB authored/sponsored BCPs. Indeed, BCP 95 was just such a document. WGs have been (should be?) for technical activities related to specifying how the Internet works. <minirant>Technical WGs at least have the possibility of achieving consensus based on the analysis of tradeoffs of hard facts and good analysis. A "WG" such as TERM may fail of achieving even WG consensus, let alone community consensus (especially given the current ongoing discussions) and there will be no fall back to fact analysis possible. I can't see any way an appeal could be managed in those circumstances and I strongly suggest we do not try to place this in the WG model.</minirant> Since the proposed charter for Term will effect more than just the standards process (e.g. it potentially effects all of the current and future RFC streams), it would appear this should be handled either as an IAB activity (either authored, or referred to a workshop), or deferred until the RFCED group completes its work and can have this assigned as a work item. My first preference is to do this as an IAB Workshop report with no BCP tag and with as dispassionate an analysis and output language as possible. E.g. explanatory language vs directive. Mike
- WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Document… S Moonesamy
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Lars Eggert
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nick Hilliard
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… S Moonesamy
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Michael StJohns
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Michael StJohns
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Lucy Lynch
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Adam Roach
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Lloyd W
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Adam Roach
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Michael StJohns
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John C Klensin
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Carsten Bormann
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nico Williams
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Jari Arkko
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nico Williams
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Keith Moore
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nico Williams
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Stewart Bryant
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Masataka Ohta
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Masataka Ohta
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Leif Johansson
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Sam Hartman
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Leif Johansson
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John Scudder
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nico Williams
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nico Williams
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nico Williams
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John C Klensin
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John C Klensin
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Jari Arkko
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Salz, Rich
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John Levine
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Keith Moore
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John C Klensin
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… tom petch
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nico Williams
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John C Klensin
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John C Klensin
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Lloyd W