Re: [Manycouches] Meet Only line - I object

Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net> Wed, 03 February 2021 23:40 UTC

Return-Path: <mstjohns@comcast.net>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95EF23A0BC5 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:40:07 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.net header.b=j98Z4/z1; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.net header.b=bIDA9V57
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MH3fNaLWYuiG for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:40:06 -0800 (PST)
Received: from resdmta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net (resdmta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07DC93A0BC2 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 15:40:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from resqmta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.40]) by resdmta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 7ReWlFC1uTKfN7RkjlH6jF; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 23:40:05 +0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=20190202a; t=1612395605; bh=LK7m6QWD7H2KOgNG+pjzmTIi++0r6dmkMvrOuygW1fE=; h=Received:Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=j98Z4/z1HSDjCwY4LLMmjpfz+XldwnJL27Y6HIu2qEoaofPm0wXPsEmoa244p4FIa N9/KXJeKNVHSNwINmnp6o6D5nY5DowAe2iXUeYYa19e7wqUHKgjxDJlbpYxA1byhXA UgJ+IpTg0V+zQj30oV5EZ0kzEUjB98tpZ6DkiJQR0/Q7eDdHMyjwoK8U0QpZRfMMts 3GOzBkj2g5cYNIMvAUSKZJr64SjYadlCHjjDdACa1MuumaFHh5Zw3bPgKKF9Nhhngr BHssPE2WvXGZ2rq/SAjSZf8HvM8+QqJi2xpOzw50TCUQVkTEmO7hNSMlfQVxDxVQlO Vhhx3rsLyuDmg==
Received: from resomta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.107]) by resqmta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 7Ne7l4m1P92Bp7RkilhWsy; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 23:40:04 +0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=20190202a; t=1612395604; bh=LK7m6QWD7H2KOgNG+pjzmTIi++0r6dmkMvrOuygW1fE=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=bIDA9V57a4LQ+LOWBzqxljC5DBRFqrVsWTQLFmBgXm6pMv6Rq5DSZGCK77bqWMwUs NvNdk+AbecZZ7D1gYMeWCEzyfHeu5s3s9+ICQS+4Hki3Q2QrQIv4JwrYwG6aEp8H7x 8WEFN3NK5CFVhfAvwykjRI4RrQTJyCR3CCg6iHolFXaNaLFi83x3jneCvDF6YqolKr v81jAun4ucnG/PD9y302IYMv7+LKw+ZuZ0WOdnH1nzgsfR6QBDyM+W2DGTvKyO4M2Q pHwD0zZ6L2Y3IFBHORzhXrYDshRY5q7tWqWAnqZU58rHPul2E/SIPe9mKPEB5gz1F1 I671Ch0bzsW1Q==
Received: from [192.168.1.23] ([138.88.204.18]) by resomta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id 7RkYlatbK1sLK7RkZltOSd; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 23:39:59 +0000
X-Xfinity-VAAS: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrgeefgddtkecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucevohhmtggrshhtqdftvghsihdpqfgfvfdppffquffrtefokffrnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddunecunecujfgurhepuffvfhfhkffffgggjggtgfesthekredttdefjeenucfhrhhomhepofhitghhrggvlhcuufhtlfhohhhnshcuoehmshhtjhhohhhnshestghomhgtrghsthdrnhgvtheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepfeeiveejheeuuddvhfevlefgleffgeehjeeihffhvedtkeekleefhefhjeeltdegnecukfhppedufeekrdekkedrvddtgedrudeknecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehhvghloheplgduledvrdduieekrddurddvfegnpdhinhgvthepudefkedrkeekrddvtdegrddukedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmshhtjhhohhhnshestghomhgtrghsthdrnhgvthdprhgtphhtthhopehivghtfhesihgvthhfrdhorhhg
X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=0.00;st=legit
Subject: Re: [Manycouches] Meet Only line - I object
To: ietf@ietf.org
References: <88FE9226-2C8D-4B10-A393-5F3913D5453C@gmail.com> <CAMGpriUXB4paQSR+KghxfEkaOUGr6CVNV1Qt+3ZS3Eo0ViFimw@mail.gmail.com> <f02c8ff3-4eb3-df4e-da8b-369cfb7bf5e7@pi.nu> <CAF4+nEFqZzfhR+=++AAmYuOpijzENnVVGpd-fekzeUr_fptM9w@mail.gmail.com> <CAHbuEH4idL1gApOK1a54vJD0QysTJoSc978=mM+7Ey5twSqu6w@mail.gmail.com>
From: Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <d7fc3d25-9b1a-f15b-6605-fa30f7e9ebf2@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 18:39:54 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAHbuEH4idL1gApOK1a54vJD0QysTJoSc978=mM+7Ey5twSqu6w@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/DFBn7ntKvLEoUzQLQiQ51mGs3PA>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 23:40:08 -0000

On 2/3/2021 4:28 PM, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
> I'd like to see more online and not have 3 in-person meetings a year. 
> The lower costs may make it more accessible to some who cannot afford 
> to travel.  It is also more equitable if everyone is remote for at 
> least some of the meetings.  One time a year in person might be fine 
> and I think we can figure that out.  This may also help primary 
> caretakers of children or parents.  I know that has been a barrier 
> expressed int he past from parents of young children.

Hi Kathleen -

I sort of get this, but that means the dynamic is a bit different, 
because you're not necessarily meeting with everyone you might want to 
meet with, just the ones on a schedule compatible with yours.

I think that we've moved the WG schedules over to virtual interims with 
a will and I don't think that's going to go back to where it was.  It's 
possible that we can shorten the IETF week, or provide more activities 
that benefit from having people in the same place for a period of time 
and narrow down the WG time.  I myself continue to come primarily for 
the hallway conversations and I find having those about 3 times a year 
to keep the connections going is Mama Bear - just right.  :-)   I do pay 
attention to some WGs and find that sitting down with an appropriate 
adult beverage with folks I'm having discussion disconnects with to be 
extremely helpful in resolving issues or just getting on the same page.  
Virtualizing will probably not work.

One thing I've noticed from the last few meetings is that being home I 
have a lack of desire to extend my time on line past specific scheduled 
activities (WGs, plenary) and I think I've seen that in others.  Things 
like Gather have helped a little but there's a real loss of useful 
random interaction in our current models.

Not having had custodial duties for parents or children I have no real 
comment there.  I believe the IETF is now (planning on?) providing some 
child care in situ, but I do understand that nothing the IETF can do 
will completely mitigate those barriers.

Later, Mike