Re: When to announce a new mailing list on ietf-announce?
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Mon, 24 October 2005 16:46 UTC
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Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:46:17 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brc@zurich.ibm.com>, dcrocker@bbiw.net
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Subject: Re: When to announce a new mailing list on ietf-announce?
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--On Monday, 24 October, 2005 09:56 +0200 Brian E Carpenter <brc@zurich.ibm.com> wrote: >... >> If one wanted to be highly formal and objective, but still >> have the scope for such lists constrained to IETF >> activities, then requiring a draft charter and a BOF >> request, or the like, might be reasonable. > > ADs do that for BOF requests but it feels like overkill to do > it for pre-BOF discussions. It seems to me that (as usual) some guidance and good sense would do us a lot more good in this sort of area than more rules. It also seems to me that this is the common "appropriateness of design teams" discussion in another form. There are times when it is useful to get broad input --or at least input that is as broad as possible-- as early as possible. If one had one of those situations, it would make sense to have an announcement to the community early on -- whether or not the list was IETF-hosted and whether the announcement was "official" on IETF-Announce or informal on the main IETF list. If we required a formal draft BOF charter or WG request to make such an announcement, we would defeat the advantages of an early "we are starting to look at topic XYZ, anyone interested should join in the discussion" announcement/request. There are times when an early announcement is likely to only contribute noise and excursions into the weeds. For those circumstances, a quiet effort to create a strawman set of proposals may be much more effective in focusing work and an early and general announcement might cause pathology. It may still be appropriate to have the discussions covered by IETF IPR policy. If the best way to accomplish that is to have the IETF host a mailing list, then we should have the IETF host the mailing list... even if that list is restricted-membership with archives available to the public only with some significant delay. If we don't permit that, we drive these efforts from "quiet" to "secret and underground". That actually frustrates long-term openness and participation and may lead to calls for IETF efforts to ratify what the smaller group has created, rather than assuming complete change control after the work emerges into a WG. And there are probably dozens of possible scenarios that lie between, or beyond, those two. Let's try for good sense rather than for an extended discussion about some rule or guideline that should (or "MUST") apply to everything. Good ideas, like people, rarely survive Procrustean Beds. john _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- Spam in the IETF's name? Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Spam in the IETF's name? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Spam in the IETF's name? Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Spam in the IETF's name? John C Klensin
- RE: Spam in the IETF's name? Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- RE: Spam in the IETF's name? John C Klensin
- Re: Spam in the IETF's name? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Spam in the IETF's name? Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Spam in the IETF's name? RL 'Bob' Morgan
- Re: Spam in the IETF's name? Frank Ellermann
- Re: Spam in the IETF's name? John C Klensin
- Re: Spam in the IETF's name? Jeroen Massar
- Re: Spam in the IETF's name? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Spam in the IETF's name? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Spam in the IETF's name? John C Klensin
- When to announce a new mailing list on ietf-annou… Dave Crocker
- Re: When to announce a new mailing list on ietf-a… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Spam in the IETF's name? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: When to announce a new mailing list on ietf-a… Dave Crocker
- Re: When to announce a new mailing list on ietf-a… John C Klensin