Re: congestion control? - (was Re: Appointment of a Transport AreaDirector)

[t.p. <[e-mail]>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Byrne" <[e-mail]>
To: "Brian E Carpenter" <[e-mail]>
Cc: <[e-mail]>; "IETF-Discussion" <[e-mail]>; "Dearlove,
Christopher (UK)" <[e-mail]>; "t.p."
<[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 4:12 PM
> On Mar 6, 2013 1:03 AM, "Brian E Carpenter"
<[e-mail]>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 06/03/2013 08:36, t.p. wrote:
> > ...
> > > Interesting, there is more life in Congestion Control than I might
have
> > > thought.  But it begs the question, is this something that the
IETF
> > > should be involved with or is it better handled by those who are
> > > developping LTE etc?
> >
> > From the little I know about TCP proxies, they are horrible beasts
> > that can impact application layer semantics. Figuring out how to
deal
> > with mixed e2e paths (partly lossy, partly congested) seems to me
> > very much an IRTF/IETF topic, even if we don't have an AD who is
> > a subject matter expert.
> >
> >    Brian
>
> There is a huge cross layer optimization issue between 3gpp and the
ietf.
> It is worse than you can imagine, highly akin to how the industry
moved
> passed the ietf with Nat. The same thing is happening with tcp.  Tcp
is
> simply not fit for these high latency high jitter low loss networks.

Reading this reminds me that my first experience with TCP was over a
high latency high jitter network with 0% error and 0% loss (to my
ability to measure it) with retransmission rates of 50%, because the TCP
algorithms were totally unsuited to such a network.  It was, of course,
X.25.

Did anyone find a solution back then, or did we just wait for X.25 to be
superseded?

(I am back on my thesis that there is nothing new in Congestion Control,
that the principles and practices that we need have been around for many
years and that we just need to find them).

Tom Petch

> Google is a player in the e2e space for various business reasons and
it
> appears they are now in an arms race with these horrible mobile
carrier
> proxies (which in many cases do on the fly transcoding of video).
>
> There are 2 fronts. 1 is quic as linked above. Another is their own
> transcoding https proxy
> https://developers.google.com/chrome/mobile/docs/data-compression
>
> This is not novel. Opera mini has been doing this for years, otherwise
know
> as opera turbo. Oh, and Nokia has been doing it too.  They even help
by
> bypassing pki and any sense of internet security.
>
>
http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/nokia-decrypting-traffic-man-in-the
-middle-attacks-103799
>
> Hold on to your hats.
>
> CB
>