Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic
Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> Wed, 02 December 2020 18:35 UTC
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From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2020 13:32:46 -0500
Message-ID: <CAMm+Lwj51YLpwZLCxsVeg=6tBwaG845Kg4WN4hbA8Bv=pjjKrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
Cc: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>, IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>
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On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 12:57 PM Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote: > > Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote: > > On 2020-12-02, at 17:38, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote: > >> > >> If it helps: I've yet to find a system that lacks both telnet and > nc (netcat) out of the box. > > > Indeed, interestingly, for me, nc replaces the existing usages of > both > > telnet and ftp (i.e., unencrypted and third-party transfers). Except > > that my brain cannot teach my fingers to stop typing “telnet”, so I > > usually have that installed in some form (e.g., inetutils) as well. > > neither nc or telnet is installed on Ubuntu or Windows or openwrt by > default now. > I don't think it's installed by default on RASPbian either. > (Hard for me to double check, as naturally, I wind up installing both > immediately) > > Like Carsten, I have difficulty not using telnet when I should be using nc. > (But, I don't find I should have -t on by default, which is why nc rather > than telnet. Ah, I remember back writing that proxy-telnet...) > I used to find this an issue and then I started to hit problems because modern servers increasingly have timeouts on commands to prevent port exhaustion DoS attacks. So I stopped debugging by hand and wrote a bunch of different code... But even if every developer needs to use telnet for debugging on a daily basis, that is still no reason for telnet to keep its standards status. I would like to see us being more aggressive in rendering old protocols obsolete so as to encourage new ones. and to discourage continued use of insecure protocols. Take the main remaining use of FTP for example - syncing to cameras over ethernet. Sure, thats one way to do it. But its insecure which is something of a problem when the professionals using it are often reporters or forensics practitioners.
- Two FTP issues John C Klensin
- Re: Two FTP issues Carsten Bormann
- Re: Two FTP issues John C Klensin
- Re: Two FTP issues Carsten Bormann
- Re: Two FTP issues John C Klensin
- Re: Two FTP issues Carsten Bormann
- Re: Two FTP issues John C Klensin
- Re: Two FTP issues Theodore Y. Ts'o
- Re: Two FTP issues Joseph Touch
- Re: Two FTP issues Salz, Rich
- Re: Two FTP issues Larry Masinter
- Re: Two non-FTP issues John Levine
- Re: Two non-FTP issues Keith Moore
- Re: Two FTP issues John C Klensin
- Telnet and FTP to Historic Phillip Hallam-Baker
- MIME sniffing Keith Moore
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Keith Moore
- Re: MIME sniffing Julian Reschke
- Re: MIME sniffing Keith Moore
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Adam Roach
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Carsten Bormann
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Michael Richardson
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Carsten Bormann
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Michael Thomas
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic John C Klensin
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Stephen Farrell
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Mark Andrews
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Stephen Farrell
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Scott Bradner
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Michael Richardson
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Michael Richardson
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Stephen Farrell
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Jared Mauch
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Mark Andrews
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic John Levine
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic John C Klensin
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Theodore Y. Ts'o
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Christian Huitema
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Joe Touch
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Christian Huitema
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Christian de Larrinaga
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Masataka Ohta
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Masataka Ohta
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Dave Cridland
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Nick Hilliard
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Masataka Ohta
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Masataka Ohta
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic IETF Sergeant at Arms
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Christian de Larrinaga
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Michael Richardson
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Masataka Ohta
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Masataka Ohta
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Joe Touch
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Keith Moore
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Adam Roach
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Christian Huitema
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Keith Moore
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Telnet and FTP to Historic Keith Moore