RE: The CIA mentions us

"Tony Hain" <alh-ietf@tndh.net> Tue, 14 March 2017 18:49 UTC

Return-Path: <alh-ietf@tndh.net>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 891891292F2 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:49:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.792
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.792 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1056-bit key) reason="fail (bad RSA signature)" header.d=tndh.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IROpuoMBz02y for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:49:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from express.tndh.net (express.tndh.net [IPv6:2001:470:e930:1240:20d:56ff:fe04:4c0a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C5A2126DCA for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:49:56 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tndh.net; s=dkim; h=Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:References:Cc:To:From; bh=Lw9n2KJngWTT7Bm3u+v1SzQCPwvrnpyOWRTU/OpGG+g=; b=AdKpv9cDERahlzkUNZ3hJKhYLDTXQzIdXTu/TWeyYpnJ2JGKUUuR9mdLs9AFI6+oFWYlxoZHrARJ50iHmhCKuvDflf0PsN6BSs2I+WcQly/6SNptkI1DFL/ypBYTMNZlWX1y8zjGKjnKE9BrIbkmtg/XopErLhCYeLs69fgBaMfPY5LO;
Received: from express.tndh.net ([2001:470:e930:1240:20d:56ff:fe04:4c0a] helo=eaglet) by express.tndh.net with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <alh-ietf@tndh.net>) id 1cnrVZ-0004p9-N5; Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:49:53 -0700
From: "Tony Hain" <alh-ietf@tndh.net>
To: "'Phillip Hallam-Baker'" <phill@hallambaker.com>, "'Ted Lemon'" <mellon@fugue.com>
Cc: "'Bob Hinden'" <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, "'IETF'" <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <20170307155346.fwhhpnsm4wl6zzoo@nic.fr> <CAMm+Lwh5E-NPXsVWQpK2tA8Rr+6SpvJJKxMbiks7_F1umxz2FQ@mail.gmail.com> <20170307160840.duv7wwg5sm23nrek@nic.fr> <44d06f90-0f38-f6de-8eb1-cf8262369cd5@bogus.com> <c6df6333-1a08-aa0c-c1de-55d335234f2a@si6networks.com> <alpine.LRH.2.01.1703071034050.3764@egate.xpasc.com> <CAMm+LwioHOJxDZudH8Ya9SYv5DT1fPMJ5ypDR8O5JGa4HwxPvg@mail.gmail.com> <F950C538-05E4-451B-8AC0-A42010DAA8D6@piuha.net> <56AC2362-AAF9-4103-AEC8-F4BD24288B94@piuha.net> <2B19E363-3C0C-409A-9FCE-078389B38106@fugue.com> <18048613-FD0F-419D-83AA-937D45F8900B@gmail.com> <47b7ee93-0fc7-1ae7-a3d7-cea0b4b4cd2a@cs.tcd.ie> <CC5E2EDA-5533-4FA0-8350-CE45311DD8B4@fugue.com> <CAMm+Lwh4Pn39D4r+k5HQnaxtZbTkpRCmAFMg77vLRVQzKY4S7g@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAMm+Lwh4Pn39D4r+k5HQnaxtZbTkpRCmAFMg77vLRVQzKY4S7g@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:49:23 -0700
Message-ID: <08b301d29cf3$b2a59df0$17f0d9d0$@tndh.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0
Thread-Index: AQH0FALxRjlZdIChSBqjnwGEOYm+4QHCMs8RAbq4Sd0BzGJ0ygHhsKGqAqgIdLABYevbEQI/GKBMARPt0AECL1WfEQLRnAoSAiud528C5pqdzQHO2VbSoH5ssFA=
Content-Language: en-us
X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2001:470:e930:1240:20d:56ff:fe04:4c0a
X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alh-ietf@tndh.net
Subject: RE: The CIA mentions us
X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2
X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on express.tndh.net)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/vy1tbDP42vTx-kyRa6g1n3t4xY0>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 18:49:58 -0000

Phillip Hallam-Bakerwrote:
...
> The reason I keep coming back to the data level security issue is that 
> 
> 1) It is in scope for IETF. Data level security protects data at rest and 
> in motion.
> 
> 2) There have been recent expiries and are imminent pending expiries 
> of key IPR that makes a solution much easier.
> 
Clearly that statement is self-contradictory. If the IPR has existed long enough to be at expire, the 'easier solution' has existed for a long time. The choice of not using it is simply a cost issue. If people don't believe protecting the data is worth the cost, the data will be exposed.

> 3) It is one of the things we can fix that has the greatest security payoff.
>
You can "improve" it, but you will never "fix" it. As long as humans have to interact with the data, there has to be a mechanism to expose the data, and that mechanism will always be vulnerable to compromise.

Tony