Re: 'Geek' image scares women away from tech industry ? The Register

[Hector Santos <[e-mail]>]

Fred Baker wrote:
> On Apr 30, 2012, at 5:03 PM, Ofer Inbar wrote:
> 
>> This PBS interview with Harvey Mudd president Maria Klawe, on the
>> subject of why fewer women go into tech & engineering fields, is
>> worth watching:
>>
>> http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/video/blog/2012/04/college_president_discusses_wo.html
> 
> This is a discussion that comes up periodically.
> 
> If you want my opinion (nobody asked, but I will presume that someone is wondering), the corollary is "why aren't more students interested in math/science?". I'll observe that there are relatively few teachers that I can say "inspired" me to think their their directions; far-too-many years later, I could probably name them. Two were English teachers, one was a Math teacher, tenth grade geometry, one taught 7th grade Geography, and one taught senior Calculus. And, oh, I liked some of my college profs, but in this context my views were probably formed before I got there.
> 
> What if teachers were measured on a survey at the end of a semester or a year that asked "does teacher <> make <> interesting to you?".

+1.

What about other minorities?  Is the recruitment levels the same? 
Public funded, social programs to fill certain needs? Both at the 
school and business levels?

A Puerto Rican from the Sough Bronx, I wanted to go to the vocational 
school up the block - Alfred E. Smith.  AP/College bounds programs 
were presented to me. I didn't know enough to see it or even dream 
about it.

A HS counselor helped with showing the availability of AA/Minority 
college grant programs which included girls among the selected group 
she called to her office.  Otherwise, while a good grades student, I 
wasn't thinking about college. I selected Drexel only because a 
recruiter came to the HS showing a photo with white, black, spanish 
and women all wearing cool Drexel Engineering helmets!  I selected 
Chemical Engineering because I saw they made the most salary as a 
co-op student among all degrees! I had no idea how brutal the Chemical 
Engineering curriculum would be.

But I had even failed a HS class called "Computers" that introduced 
this thing called FORTRAN using some punch card thingy.  So I was 
presented with even more Pre-college Grant programs to learn about 
applied engineering with computers, and it still took an act of GOD 
with a lightning strike knocking out a PDP-11, forcing us to do the 
engineering problem translation to BASIC on paper by hand, and only 
then did I finally get the AH-AH of GIGO!

And even with all that, it still took AA programs it finally get a job 
because it was mist of a recession that did not help many get a job 
and this dude called Ted Turner speaking in our graduation getting 
loud boos recommending that we go into the MILITARY!

IMO, background is very important. Unless there are active social 
programs and recruitment efforts A.K.A "Marketing," I don't think 
there will a natural tendency of the so called "minority segment" of 
(any) society that are not often encouraged or have the family 
background already, to explore or even think about the science related 
industry as a career.

Take myself. I was deep into computers and the blossoming world of 
Telecomputing, micro-at-home era. The wife (Technical Sales Engineer) 
and I specifically did not want our two new girls to get into the same 
High Tech business as Daddy and Mommy were in.  No Way! Doctors, 
Lawyers perhaps! No way ENGINEER!  It was too tough and I also saw how 
tough it was for my women peers at Mobil and Westinghouse with an 
extreme competition going on, and quite frankly faced tough family 
decisions at some point. In fact, during some pending layoffs at big 
W, I was told I was going to stay and found out a pregnant software 
programmer in the group was going to get laid off. With my existing 
"Fire in my Belly" to quit and start my business already, I took the 
opportunity and asked the boss to keep her and to lay me off instead 
so I can get the benefits, Cobra, etc.  If I had quit, I lose all that.

I had already saw that the salaries were different too. The idea of 
working for a corporation lost its appear when I saw a lost of loyalty 
with people of 20, 25-30 years who had dedicated their engineering 
lives were now forced to get early retirement, laid off or fired. 
With no more Federal funding for Advanced Energy programs and the even 
Defense in AI, Robots and Star Wars, etc, I did not want my two girls 
to go into these life commitment hard sciences. I didn't push the 
computers at home on them at all. I didn't teach them about the idea 
of "programming" etc. Perhaps only to play games, and perhaps to use 
the early on-disc encyclopedias. They were using Apple stuff at school 
anyway and that was good enough for us.

Today, both living in NYC, one works for Sony Music productions 
department and the oldest is a successful independent artist making 
more money that I can ever imagine possible. She was even a contestant 
on Bravo's first season "Next Great Artist."  The only thing that 
first worried me was whether she would need to cut off an ear before 
getting recognized in the art world! :)

We have to consider that the engineering life is not always ideal for 
anyone. Its sounds nice, it does give one more respect among their 
family peers, helps secure jobs (when available), better pay, etc, but 
its takes a very high commitment and it is very competitive to keep up 
even if one wishes to stay in one position and not interested to be 
move ahead.  That presents employer decisions with competitive 
compensation managers need to make. Younger, lower salary recruitement 
can do the same job, etc, so generally by 30, aging engineers need to 
make life career movements and changes.

For women, well, life is life, it is what it is, they have it harder 
to make family oriented decisions and they are in a position to be, 
well, let my artist daughter, Jaclyn Santos, show you what woman are 
facing with her "Super Mom, Super Executive, Super Ho!"
painting:

        http://www.jaclynsantos.com/images/large/g.jpg

Finally, for the IETF - well, gotta know first what it wants.  What 
does recruiting more woman (or other minorities for that matter) mean 
to it?  I personally think its just a reflection of whats going on in 
the market.  Its not like the IETF is on the radar for anyone to 
pursue unless they are presented with it somewhere, somehow, at work 
most likely with a position where IETF work is part of the job 
production.   I say that is a very very narrow niche job or goal.

PS: These are my views and says nothing about life other than my own.

-- 
Sincerely

Hector Santos
http://www.santronics.com
jabber: [e-mail]