Re: [ippm] Call for adoption: milestone on coloring-based loss and delay methodologies

[Mach Chen <[e-mail]>]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your suggestion, we did have some discussions among the authors of both drafts in the past, and thought it's a way to move forward. So, we will follow your suggestions and try to merge the two drafts once draft-tempia is adopted.  

Thanks,
Mach

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Trammell [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 9:49 PM
> To: Mach Chen
> Cc: IETF IPPM WG
> Subject: Re: [ippm] Call for adoption: milestone on coloring-based loss and
> delay methodologies
> 
> hi Mach, all,
> 
> A few suggestions, as an individual contributor:
> 
> > On 18 Apr 2016, at 11:10, Mach Chen <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Brian,
> >
> > Firstly, I support the adoption of draft-tempia-ippm-p3m.
> >
> > BTW, I would argue that draft-chen-ippm-coloring should be in the scope of
> the current charter.
> >
> >> Additional methods will be defined for the composition and
> >> calibration of IPPM-defined metrics, as well as active, passive and
> >> hybrid measurement methods for these metrics. In addition, the WG
> >> encourages work which describes the applicability of metrics and
> >> measurement methods, especially to improve understanding of the
> >> tradeoffs involved among active, passive, and hybrid methods.
> >
> > This is the charter text you quoted, IMHO, the second part is just what
> draft-chen-ippm-coloring is doing, which defines "the applicability of metrics
> and measurement methods".
> 
> Parts of the document do indeed discuss measurement method applicability;
> however, draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework goes much further
> than that. It prescribes an architecture of centralized coordination of a set of
> measurement agents (which may or may not be Measurement Agents in the
> LMAP sense; my understanding of the current state of the LMAP work indicates
> that the information model there might not be applicable to hybrid
> measurements as described in these documents at this point in time).
> 
> > It applies the marking-based idea to P2P, P2MP, MP2P scenarios, it also
> defines how to correlate the metrics from ingress MAs and egress MAs, how to
> handle packet re-ordering, synchronization, etc., these are fundamental to the
> marking based loss and delay measurement.
> 
> Agreed. It seems to me that these sections of the document could be merged
> into draft-tempia after its adoption as a working group item (should it be
> adopted, which looking at the mailing list at this point seems likely).
> 
> > As for the "operational collection and use of metrics produced by such
> methodologies", this actually has been separated to another draft(the IPFIX
> extension draft).
> 
> Perhaps the architectural bits of this draft belong in the separate draft as well?
> (Again, such a draft would  in my personal opinion need a new charter to be
> adoptable in IPPM)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Brian (as an individual)
> 
> >
> > So, I think that daft-chen is in the charter and would hope that the WG would
> consider to adopt draft-chen as well. I remember that there were quite a lot
> supports on site during IETF 95th meeting.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Mach
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: ippm [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Brian Trammell
> >> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 9:21 PM
> >> To: IETF IPPM WG
> >> Subject: [ippm] Call for adoption: milestone on coloring-based loss
> >> and delay methodologies
> >>
> >> Greetings, all,
> >>
> >> We're slowly working our way through the queue of things to do after
> >> the Buenos Aires meeting; we'll be making a few confirmations of
> >> calls for adoption in the coming days. One of the items for the
> >> chairs to consider following our face-to-face discussions is what, if
> >> anything, the working group wants to do about "coloring"-based hybrid
> measurement.
> >>
> >> On a review of our charter, we find that a milestone on measurement
> >> methodologies, largely as described by draft-tempia-ippm-p3m, is
> >> covered by Paragraph 4:
> >>
> >>> Additional methods will be defined for the composition and
> >>> calibration of IPPM-defined metrics, as well as active, passive and
> >>> hybrid measurement methods for these metrics. In addition, the WG
> >>> encourages work which describes the applicability of metrics and
> >>> measurement methods, especially to improve understanding of the
> >>> tradeoffs involved among active, passive, and hybrid methods.
> >>
> >> We would therefore like to make a call for adoption of the following
> milestone:
> >>
> >> (date TBD): Submit an Experimental draft on coloring-based hybrid
> >> measurement methodologies for loss and delay to the IESG
> >>
> >> and for the adoption of draft-tempia-ippm-p3m as the basis for a
> >> document meeting this milestone. Please indicate support for or
> >> concerns about adoption to the [e-mail] mailing list by Friday 29 April
> 2016.
> >>
> >> Please note the IPR disclosure on draft-tempia-ippm-p3m
> >> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2557/) when considering this adoption call.
> >>
> >> Larger frameworks for the operational collection and use of metrics
> >> produced by such methodologies, however, such as described by
> >> draft-chen-ippm-coloring-based-ipfpm-framework, do not appear to be
> >> covered under the present charter. Therefore, we can make no call for
> >> adoption for an appropriate milestone at this time.
> >>
> >> Thanks, cheers,
> >>
> >> Brian and Bill, as chairs