Re: [Isis-wg] draft-amante-isis-reverse-metric-01

Christopher LILJENSTOLPE <ietf@cdl.asgaard.org> Tue, 07 December 2010 23:48 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf@cdl.asgaard.org>
X-Original-To: isis-wg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: isis-wg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9BF73A68B5 for <isis-wg@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Dec 2010 15:48:28 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k9aJr3J3pqxA for <isis-wg@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Dec 2010 15:48:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from asgaard.org (ratatosk.asgaard.org [204.29.150.73]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF7C13A6881 for <isis-wg@ietf.org>; Tue, 7 Dec 2010 15:48:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [172.20.10.3] (unknown [110.140.65.207]) by asgaard.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E92CB9F14BF; Tue, 7 Dec 2010 23:49:51 +0000 (UTC)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
From: Christopher LILJENSTOLPE <ietf@cdl.asgaard.org>
In-Reply-To: <4CFD4AC6.7090706@cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2010 10:49:07 +1100
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <79221C2E-0311-47E3-BE87-F0AAB306ECF7@cdl.asgaard.org>
References: <C9F49613-1F78-484A-B7D3-7E4028E0B9C3@castlepoint.net> <AE36820147909644AD2A7CA014B1FB520CBA0665@xmb-sjc-222.amer.cisco.com> <2EEE5586-CD41-4C13-8D13-FC69ED126A1F@castlepoint.net> <AE36820147909644AD2A7CA014B1FB520CBA0737@xmb-sjc-222.amer.cisco.com> <309BCE56-9213-4B29-A364-B3421D952080@castlepoint.net> <4CFD4AC6.7090706@cisco.com>
To: raszuk@cisco.com
X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.3.1
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082)
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 05:27:06 -0800
Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] draft-amante-isis-reverse-metric-01
X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group <isis-wg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg>, <mailto:isis-wg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/isis-wg>
List-Post: <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:isis-wg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg>, <mailto:isis-wg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 23:48:28 -0000

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Greetings Robert,

On 07Dec2010, at 07.42, Robert Raszuk wrote:

> All,
> 
>> On a more serious note, it's important to recognize that in order to
>> mitigate human-error, we need to reduce the burden on operators to
>> "always get it right", as you seem to imply above, and certainly as
>> our executives (and customers) want us to.
> 
> Watching this thread with deep interest I must say that I am with Les here.
> 
> The problem is that this is nearly 2011 and we still do not have a good way to configure networks as an entire abstraction. We do at most - in sophisticated networks - have scripts to configure routers on a box to box basis.
> 
> Instead of working on network wide level config tool/protocol we are extending protocols to achieve the equivalent functionality. And this is not only in ISIS, we do the same in BGP, we do the same in MPLS etc ...
> 
> So while I am not seeing any harm with this draft as is I think at some point we should put serious effort to look at the network as an abstraction layer and configure such abstraction layer rather then continue the trend of extending routing protocols to deliver equivalent functionality.

And the quest for that holy grail has been going on in this forum for well nigh 20 years.  When it comes, we will all bow down before it and celebrate for a solid year.  Until then, we have networks to run.....

:)

Chris

> 
> That IMHO would be the best way to address the "human error" issue.
> 
> Cheers,
> R.
> _______________________________________________
> Isis-wg mailing list
> Isis-wg@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg
> 

- ---
李柯睿
Check my PGP key here:
https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.asc

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJM/sf0AAoJEGmx2Mt/+Iw/79QH/AlBOR+xWFM6KxFqrxXfsLYk
51f920KtCInqhBOE+4GF56d4u1wIkhKdjhBRBDQVQd6efmMBtwMCoqf9bdL1LpXL
9XPQcUY3DjUKWOrafWms7lJy4PXOUYHBdSHHzSPHhuBVbu0ftHIlOSjUBf1yexOs
3QRNPSgMjYA254zf9hDZsMh3XSLYDJuQO80rzGBPPk7VdMZr/VxE9/OsvfDD0OyF
rPDnHCAMa7/DqBmaBLkxZCEcrHJ1b8zaQqNDqrrckp1H95LSYIBxklFnrz4/GfKV
nRO5dNiu+YggwtFlVMtv2zeouuMckO1yECI5lNZHGyk/y1nVgV7vFmX3zZGqofM=
=wR4/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----