Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary
"Douglas E. Engert" <deengert@anl.gov> Mon, 17 September 2007 15:05 UTC
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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:05:05 -0500
From: "Douglas E. Engert" <deengert@anl.gov>
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To: "Henry B. Hotz" <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary
References: <46DE5CC1.10204@it.su.se> <8158D751-0EE0-4D58-81DB-549C4A413B68@jpl.nasa.gov> <9B9324ACE4CA354EAF122E7D0E0673B64BDF23@NDMSEVS22.ndc.nasa.gov> <D80F0FFA-D9FF-48F1-B410-75078B40E8D7@jpl.nasa.gov> <46E1A274.1080600@anl.gov> <D208EBD0-1182-49C6-9A6F-B3210C4627E5@jpl.nasa.gov> <46E79162.2010402@it.su.se> <C5437591-6811-4087-9C89-D7959A6872D4@jpl.nasa.gov> <46E9905E.3040404@sun.com> <370D0C3F-8DBD-4FCD-82EA-D6155EB06F41@jpl.nasa.gov> <46E9A3DB.4040608@sun.com> <46E9AA7B.4040508@anl.gov> <46C580CE-5E22-4687-AD3C-AE198FE43156@jpl.nasa.gov>
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Henry B. Hotz wrote: > Anyone know the compatibility of the PAC with other authorization data? > DCE authN data is, I presume, ASN1 encoded. I think the PAC is just a > memory dump. A SAML token is XML. > > Even if we ignore DCE, can we guarantee that an XML blob and the PAC can > coexist if needed? I think I'm seeing some provisions for that, but > want to confirm. Yes. RFC 4120 section 7.5.4 defines the Authorization Data Types. There are OSF-DCE(64) SESAME(65), AD_OSF_DCE_PKI_CERTID(66) AD_WIN2K_PAC(128) and AD_ETYPE_NEGOTAION(129). Others can be added but the Authorization Data Types are not listed in IANA. The PAC (128) is wrapped in a AD_IF_RELEVANT(1) which implies it is optional. > > ><I don't have anything to add to Doug's comments.>> > > On Sep 13, 2007, at 2:24 PM, Douglas E. Engert wrote: > >> Gerald Beuchelt wrote: >>> It is my understanding (and I am also no lawyer!) that the article by >>> John Brezak carries a patent license regarding the actual content of >>> the document itself. >>> Now, this document specifies the PAC for Windows 2000, with the >>> exception of 18 reserved fields. What it also does not specify is any >>> PAC changes in XP, 2003, Vista, or 2008. It also does not specify any >>> backend infrastructure (e.g. discovery or resolution services, policy >>> tools, or data storage, etc.) that might or might not be covered by >>> patents or other intellectual property rights. Also, some of the >>> default SIDs in the Windows implementation that are required for >>> evaluating group membership (e.g. EVERYONE, etc.) are also not >>> included in this document. >> >> There was also the IETF: >> draft-brezak-win2k-krb-authz-01.txt >> from October 2002, I still have a copy, but does not address XP, 2003 >> or Vista. >> >> Samba has been working on using the PAC created by Windows, and trying >> to get XP to use a Samba/Heimdal created PAC. So they may have addressed >> a lot of these issues. >> >> http://samba.org/ftp/unpacked/trunk-cluster/source/libads/authdata.c >> referes to KERB_VALIDATION_INFO >> >> >> >>> In addition, I do seem to remember that Microsoft at some time >>> offered a complete description (purportedly including the 18 reserved >>> fields) of the PAC that came with a license explicitly prohibiting >>> implementation. Since I did not touch this document, I cannot speak >>> to its actual content. >>> So, as I am not a lawyer, I am quite paranoid when it comes to other >>> people's IPR and license terms. Therefore I am just cautioning the >>> use of these specifications, since they are (i) old (Windows 2000), >>> (ii) not peer-reviewed, and (iii) not published by an established >>> standards organization with a clear IPR regime. >>> Sorry to be such a pain, but if the majority of this group is intend >>> on pursuing the NT PAC path, I would suggest that someone approaches >>> Microsoft to get clarification about the status of the spec. >> >> I don't think trying to add something to the Microsoft PAC is a good >> idea. >> But if they add something "Level of assurance" to the PAC using it is >> another story. >> >> Adding another auth_data element of SAML does not require the >> Microsoft PAC. >> >> >>> Best, >>> Gerald >>> Henry B. Hotz wrote: >>>> >>>> On Sep 13, 2007, at 12:32 PM, Gerald Beuchelt wrote: >>>> >>>>> However, note that there is no patent covenant or even simple >>>>> licensing terms for the backend infrastructure, so while >>>>> implementing these data structures might be covered *to the extend >>>>> that they are documented here), the necessary backend >>>>> infrastructure might require additional licensing and royalties. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure what you mean. Can you give an example of something >>>> that might require a license? In my mind (I'm not a lawyer) an >>>> implementation is either independent, or not. Since Microsoft >>>> doesn't publish actual code for any of this an implementation is >>>> either pirated from unpublished code, or it's independent, isn't it? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The opinions expressed in this message are mine, > not those of Caltech, JPL, NASA, or the US Government. > Henry.B.Hotz@jpl.nasa.gov, or hbhotz@oxy.edu > > -- Douglas E. Engert <DEEngert@anl.gov> Argonne National Laboratory 9700 South Cass Avenue Argonne, Illinois 60439 (630) 252-5444 _______________________________________________ KAML mailing list KAML@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/kaml
- Re: [KAML] Chicago bar-BOF summary Leif Johansson
- [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- [KAML] Chicago bar-BOF summary Leif Johansson
- RE: [KAML] Chicago bar-BOF summary Josh Howlett
- Re: [KAML] Chicago bar-BOF summary Leif Johansson
- RE: [KAML] Chicago bar-BOF summary Josh Howlett
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Tom Scavo
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Douglas E. Engert
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Douglas E. Engert
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Tom Scavo
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- RE: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Taylor, Dennis C. (GSFC-720.0)[INDUS]
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Douglas E. Engert
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Scott Cantor
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Leif Johansson
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- RE: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Scott Cantor
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Leif Johansson
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Douglas E. Engert
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Leif Johansson
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Gerald Beuchelt
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Gerald Beuchelt
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Douglas E. Engert
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Gerald Beuchelt
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Gerald Beuchelt
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Douglas E. Engert