Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary
"Douglas E. Engert" <deengert@anl.gov> Thu, 13 September 2007 21:24 UTC
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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:24:11 -0500
From: "Douglas E. Engert" <deengert@anl.gov>
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To: Gerald Beuchelt <beuchelt@sun.com>
Subject: Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary
References: <46DE5CC1.10204@it.su.se> <8158D751-0EE0-4D58-81DB-549C4A413B68@jpl.nasa.gov> <9B9324ACE4CA354EAF122E7D0E0673B64BDF23@NDMSEVS22.ndc.nasa.gov> <D80F0FFA-D9FF-48F1-B410-75078B40E8D7@jpl.nasa.gov> <46E1A274.1080600@anl.gov> <D208EBD0-1182-49C6-9A6F-B3210C4627E5@jpl.nasa.gov> <46E79162.2010402@it.su.se> <C5437591-6811-4087-9C89-D7959A6872D4@jpl.nasa.gov> <46E9905E.3040404@sun.com> <370D0C3F-8DBD-4FCD-82EA-D6155EB06F41@jpl.nasa.gov> <46E9A3DB.4040608@sun.com>
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Gerald Beuchelt wrote: > It is my understanding (and I am also no lawyer!) that the article by > John Brezak carries a patent license regarding the actual content of the > document itself. > > Now, this document specifies the PAC for Windows 2000, with the > exception of 18 reserved fields. What it also does not specify is any > PAC changes in XP, 2003, Vista, or 2008. It also does not specify any > backend infrastructure (e.g. discovery or resolution services, policy > tools, or data storage, etc.) that might or might not be covered by > patents or other intellectual property rights. Also, some of the default > SIDs in the Windows implementation that are required for evaluating > group membership (e.g. EVERYONE, etc.) are also not included in this > document. > There was also the IETF: draft-brezak-win2k-krb-authz-01.txt from October 2002, I still have a copy, but does not address XP, 2003 or Vista. Samba has been working on using the PAC created by Windows, and trying to get XP to use a Samba/Heimdal created PAC. So they may have addressed a lot of these issues. http://samba.org/ftp/unpacked/trunk-cluster/source/libads/authdata.c referes to KERB_VALIDATION_INFO > In addition, I do seem to remember that Microsoft at some time offered a > complete description (purportedly including the 18 reserved fields) of > the PAC that came with a license explicitly prohibiting implementation. > Since I did not touch this document, I cannot speak to its actual content. > So, as I am not a lawyer, I am quite paranoid when it comes to other > people's IPR and license terms. Therefore I am just cautioning the use > of these specifications, since they are (i) old (Windows 2000), (ii) not > peer-reviewed, and (iii) not published by an established standards > organization with a clear IPR regime. > > Sorry to be such a pain, but if the majority of this group is intend on > pursuing the NT PAC path, I would suggest that someone approaches > Microsoft to get clarification about the status of the spec. > I don't think trying to add something to the Microsoft PAC is a good idea. But if they add something "Level of assurance" to the PAC using it is another story. Adding another auth_data element of SAML does not require the Microsoft PAC. > Best, > > Gerald > > > Henry B. Hotz wrote: >> >> On Sep 13, 2007, at 12:32 PM, Gerald Beuchelt wrote: >> >>> However, note that there is no patent covenant or even simple >>> licensing terms for the backend infrastructure, so while implementing >>> these data structures might be covered *to the extend that they are >>> documented here), the necessary backend infrastructure might require >>> additional licensing and royalties. >> >> I'm not sure what you mean. Can you give an example of something that >> might require a license? In my mind (I'm not a lawyer) an >> implementation is either independent, or not. Since Microsoft doesn't >> publish actual code for any of this an implementation is either >> pirated from unpublished code, or it's independent, isn't it? >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> The opinions expressed in this message are mine, >> not those of Caltech, JPL, NASA, or the US Government. >> Henry.B.Hotz@jpl.nasa.gov, or hbhotz@oxy.edu >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > KAML mailing list > KAML@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/kaml -- Douglas E. Engert <DEEngert@anl.gov> Argonne National Laboratory 9700 South Cass Avenue Argonne, Illinois 60439 (630) 252-5444 _______________________________________________ KAML mailing list KAML@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/kaml
- Re: [KAML] Chicago bar-BOF summary Leif Johansson
- [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- [KAML] Chicago bar-BOF summary Leif Johansson
- RE: [KAML] Chicago bar-BOF summary Josh Howlett
- Re: [KAML] Chicago bar-BOF summary Leif Johansson
- RE: [KAML] Chicago bar-BOF summary Josh Howlett
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Tom Scavo
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Douglas E. Engert
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Douglas E. Engert
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Tom Scavo
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- RE: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Taylor, Dennis C. (GSFC-720.0)[INDUS]
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Douglas E. Engert
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Scott Cantor
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Leif Johansson
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- RE: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Scott Cantor
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Leif Johansson
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Douglas E. Engert
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Leif Johansson
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Gerald Beuchelt
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Gerald Beuchelt
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Douglas E. Engert
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Henry B. Hotz
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Gerald Beuchelt
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Gerald Beuchelt
- Re: [KAML] Re: Chicago bar-BOF summary Douglas E. Engert