Re: [Last-Call] New Version Notification for draft-crocker-inreply-react-07.txt

John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Sat, 27 February 2021 00:24 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@taugh.com>
X-Original-To: last-call@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: last-call@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13A3B3A14A5 for <last-call@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:24:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=qy6EWj2v; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=mBTUl3mu
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tIwgWzcNyLNx for <last-call@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:24:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 547433A14A2 for <last-call@ietf.org>; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:24:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 50633 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2021 00:24:15 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=c5c6.6039912f.k2102; bh=Arw893iW+gOJdGIGqAf+XI33YvZS5dSCLQ9lFaajivY=; b=qy6EWj2vmBSyMpceJ/NV9vRT8dy/Aqg/qMGIMZiFQfp5LPwSbGVQjlfbir7y96I5aA3HvBr6BXbzvWuDMrT0g/d1r3uK/pmd0zQGoTErjuUID4MV2TpkIgYnV+Q/WK2F0TIC4s6Le8J75cZEBka6QP/Hj9wqxQoVuAs+oiUgN2wamBzgv8PLu7s+DfbNttfU7UUJcet1hTjZr9XfIqchIx+IZme5/O0dEHBbt9w9NydDxOd3yuEpFx+KtoBKojN3Zc65IZXLqkjZ5gqvaWBKU/aID00wq3p916v4FTrKQXrnfOpZa4RzdepPDK6o4U8Dbz6Sl0rQrM19daQxnKkRXA==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=c5c6.6039912f.k2102; bh=Arw893iW+gOJdGIGqAf+XI33YvZS5dSCLQ9lFaajivY=; b=mBTUl3mupKhd3mLBlM+6Poc2QF4woMcVlpUrQEbWii6UwfMnvQbxEtWibVE/HSlc8UcFMWJPw4CXhiEpTS0wiFHX1UDTnJrdaMVua2Lm4Fy2qAUO23kFyzFc6ufSG3pqUOwkVGrDqRZKVDvmx3U8npAHRucikRTptJwgpMDopv2Jk1/nZdtrOojvrqzXq4tBi7h23MczCMZsjqT7jormqayicKgTzTTARGeyADV3NGVDchOWJ8Gx9880PBFJLmBgNAR7abuB6QwE32bppycF25oQAW1YkQZeGKtvtK2U7vNRRrB9FXcpFK2uZ2KPQVWCdkzp2/3xYix1kack5zdURA==
Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 27 Feb 2021 00:24:14 -0000
Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6BF396EF76E0; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 19:24:13 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ary.qy (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07C76EF76C2; Fri, 26 Feb 2021 19:24:13 -0500 (EST)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 19:24:13 -0500
Message-ID: <aaa9869-a44f-d23c-a5d-4f9e9d6d6c75@taugh.com>
From: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: Dave Crocker <dcrocker@bbiw.net>, last-call@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <1bf0f5b1-a7a8-8c9f-3d6a-6f29f57fdb37@bbiw.net>
References: <20210227000746.583206EF7036@ary.qy> <1bf0f5b1-a7a8-8c9f-3d6a-6f29f57fdb37@bbiw.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-1265997791-1614385453=:81855"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/last-call/cW5o1EF6FDF5cY4_i16UKuM2tPA>
Subject: Re: [Last-Call] New Version Notification for draft-crocker-inreply-react-07.txt
X-BeenThere: last-call@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Last Calls <last-call.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/last-call>, <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/last-call/>
List-Post: <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/last-call>, <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 00:24:18 -0000

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021, Dave Crocker wrote:
>> It only works if there's a small controlled vocabulary, but it doesn't
>> matter what the vocabulary is.  There are over 3500 Unicode emoji
>> and exponentially more if you add modifiers like skin tone, so that's
>> not very controlled either.
>
> If there is, really, no limit to what can be put there, then there is, 
> really, infinite variety possible for every message, in terms of the physical 
> characteristics of what needs displaying.

Well, we can limit it to strings of Unicode.

> If the vocabulary is merely graphic symbols, a natural working set will 
> develop among a set of users, even if one isn't imposed.

  :-)  :-(  ;-)  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

> There is a difference between attempting to specify the details of UI 
> behavior, here, versus ignoring potential effects upon such designs.
>
> There is also a difference between offering flexibility just because we can, 
> versus offering it because it has clear utility.

I'd flip it around.  What reason do we have to believe that any particular 
restricted vocabulary that we might define would be useful to users we 
don't know and who may not even speak any language we speak?

I suppose we could say that it might work better if a group of people have 
a shared set of reaaction symbols but I don't see anything we can say that 
wouldn't be vague and obvious.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly