Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) processes (Re: draft-davis-t-langtag-ext)
Felix Sasaki <felix.sasaki@fh-potsdam.de> Wed, 13 July 2011 07:37 UTC
Return-Path: <felix.sasaki@googlemail.com>
X-Original-To: ltru@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ltru@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F8021F8762 for <ltru@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 00:37:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.784
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.784 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.292, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tg6fnF6Pg46T for <ltru@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 00:37:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qw0-f44.google.com (mail-qw0-f44.google.com [209.85.216.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF02021F84EC for <ltru@ietf.org>; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 00:37:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by qwc23 with SMTP id 23so3900544qwc.31 for <ltru@ietf.org>; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 00:37:05 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=z9uKz87w+CVxV+ZrOTIDKWCMKLPQjrhXLdGGJrHtnH0=; b=dn62bLbkitr4FjPW6MW7sxay6AShoshw56KCLb6mZgVdvpnbgEHyN4pGAJDh8wujcp w6qTQaN7sn4foRckFB/piwxipcNvBTCDrdEOD5kqVEwjwJrqxB/hfhVEUzD7aGNNrnAG P7BN45+fTeht+Vb7FPGQ97Hlc9ytsse2DfI+M=
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.224.211.200 with SMTP id gp8mr697742qab.76.1310542625354; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 00:37:05 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: felix.sasaki@googlemail.com
Received: by 10.224.45.210 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 00:37:05 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <4E1D3B85.6070409@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
References: <CAL58czptZA+pRi4HYW8J0cAn7vSw=MM-N6193uzi7HG=2sRdBw@mail.gmail.com> <4E1D3B85.6070409@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 09:37:05 +0200
X-Google-Sender-Auth: khFvszc3ZQeUhUt5j7SFugg1NSM
Message-ID: <CAL58czoSyxNpewLPpgHuK9Tc4dU3tq1C9ruMkNjCgCuTzmhBfw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Felix Sasaki <felix.sasaki@fh-potsdam.de>
To: "Martin J. Dürst" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="20cf300fb4b9a5b43c04a7ee7bf7"
Cc: ltru@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) processes (Re: draft-davis-t-langtag-ext)
X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list <ltru.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ltru>
List-Post: <mailto:ltru@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 07:37:10 -0000
Hello Martin, many thanks for your feedback. 2011/7/13 "Martin J. Dürst" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> > Hello Felix, > > (I have removed ietf-languages@ietf.org, to avoid cross-postings.) > > > On 2011/07/12 16:23, Felix Sasaki wrote: > >> The current draft states >> >> "Language tags, as defined by >> [BCP47<http://tools.ietf.org/**html/draft-davis-t-langtag-** >> ext-02#ref-BCP47<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davis-t-langtag-ext-02#ref-BCP47> >> >], >> >> are useful for identifying the >> >> language of content. There are mechanisms for specifying variant >> subtags for special purposes. However, these variants are >> insufficient for specifying text transformations, including content >> >> that has been transliterated, transcribed, or translated." >> >> I am requesting a clarification from the editors, that includes a liaison >> with the Unicode ULI TC http://uli.unicode.org/ , and a clarification in >> the >> draft. >> > > The IETF has liaisons, but not for a sentence or two in a single draft. The > IETF is open, so I suggest that you invite whoever is interested from > whoever organization to comment here. Of course I can point people from the ULI TC to comment on this draft. I was hoping that since this draft is being put forward mainly by a Unicode TC (CLDR), that Mark or others on this list who are members of that TC would engage with the ULI TC to assure coordination of efforts. But I am happy to do that on my own, and you are right that this is not a question of IETF liaisons. > > > > Language tags so far have described *states*: an object is in a language, >> a >> script etc. The proposed extension extends languages to describe the >> outcome >> of a *process*: objects have been transformed, with a source object as the >> basis for this process. According to the paragraph above, this >> transformation includes also translation. >> > > I think you have a good point: The above description should be changed to > speak about the result of the transformation, not the process itself. > > > > So far formats like TBX, XLIFF or others have been used for aligning >> source >> and target contents. These formats also use language tags, via xml:lang. >> However, the transformation, i.e. the process information, is not >> expressed >> via the language tag, but via XML structures (pairs of source and target >> elements). >> > > That's probably the best for these kinds of formats and their applications. > > > The language tags are purely for identifying the state of an >> object. >> > > Yes, and some wording changes can make this clear. > I agree. Mark or Addison, if you need more detailed / different text than the above, please let me know. Regards, Felix > > Regards, Martin. >
- [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) processes… Felix Sasaki
- [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) processes… CE Whitehead
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… CE Whitehead
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Felix Sasaki
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Mark Davis ☕
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Mark Davis ☕
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Felix Sasaki
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Mark Davis ☕
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… CE Whitehead