Re: [Manycouches] DOGFOOD Virtual BoF

Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Wed, 12 February 2020 01:05 UTC

Return-Path: <mellon@fugue.com>
X-Original-To: manycouches@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: manycouches@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D44B4120859 for <manycouches@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:05:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dqDhO1PssGfT for <manycouches@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:05:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pg1-x534.google.com (mail-pg1-x534.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::534]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63B01120853 for <manycouches@ietf.org>; Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:05:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pg1-x534.google.com with SMTP id j4so307139pgi.1 for <manycouches@ietf.org>; Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:05:23 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=gkQFYVLITJu25Z9QqB9QFH4ODRpEb+AZFaEjHyVQzHM=; b=e2dZv/oT8D96eO21QGZ7KnfSFfLCaeVDT9GQYXSpIHypI9Qt3floQW3AxrSkY3xxW2 jiYJO6gJumQobvi4in31Y/MMcxLBkAwCwF10lIsV/Oy9Rdj2Ga51j2lh4JA5u1MG90hr ji5u8nqHbWFbyWxOu3U8gE9FYrM0mydf2rjEfJUih5s63PN8FM90x0IaAbpgX7C8a102 yTwV7H9FEQ5xJhbVuTmzJ9varIzx3sZ7U1mzVhW+caVVNK46grbi/sUB8KaFF3OTK91O goF5oxUWghlMuVjZp2wbZuTcv8o2m6yjGjz94ywVWXQw9ErPcU6HBQpV+t0+aG8gg+Vw Zo4Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=gkQFYVLITJu25Z9QqB9QFH4ODRpEb+AZFaEjHyVQzHM=; b=nC5ywzeGecUubcDUDkMVhr294GbKt1QcBUWh2AN3ZEC2MxhFuc2GNzlrDWDjNErr0I kthV3PEZuA+cFMCSy2d4/ni7kgNcBK3j5hSvhL12OqOPkON7PLF2SvlerNIrolRNdCrg TlrF9IEMMPMwPISk9I6ygKp1sBxpBhicW3rH7tOGYJApaprYd2HBecrwlnSX+yDFTQae nsm5kbAD45Tfxwcv3UWcU0pA85K3Wn4zEJA9TU6lVB9EUMVhZNtd6EPRLX7G2d4fko4U xyzowHTJ6R48+V2Ir3CHILvZoyqPUhXg9IMG49ZRb0Ig2dOvyZhpWfYxaMwWwJ+6KwK6 RxaA==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUd13li76bIt4yaFElpn06SLWI3Ugs3GBZO+sAXdQ2NRLUPA2uX DZmtLkLIiRbbh/N55QJBT0eqwA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzG1TnoiOIkwcO8XaJAbEigGDUcMXr39og3mMQcLfZbUKMH5I40D2bleE5eR8hyYq3X9NWdWw==
X-Received: by 2002:a63:e54c:: with SMTP id z12mr9460942pgj.415.1581469522714; Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:05:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from encantada.scv.apple.com ([17.192.170.45]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t65sm5525062pfd.178.2020.02.11.17.05.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:05:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Message-Id: <3B34FC07-575E-4608-BDB9-2BBD9C7F9743@fugue.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4FAA8106-2124-43BA-AE50-9F605B2F3FD3"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.4\))
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:05:20 -0800
In-Reply-To: <c5aec357-458d-4f50-1023-56137f2493bc@cs.tcd.ie>
Cc: Nick Doty <npdoty@ischool.berkeley.edu>, manycouches@ietf.org, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
References: <AB5A9A15-D7EC-421A-B139-19F42A71C747@fugue.com> <540374B8-FB46-4F35-851A-ED6CEE586EA1@ischool.berkeley.edu> <A980371A-949A-49E6-99B7-DB0449476275@fugue.com> <c5aec357-458d-4f50-1023-56137f2493bc@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.4)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/manycouches/0db_GKn_UdpC1NziOKxH1RBT8_I>
Subject: Re: [Manycouches] DOGFOOD Virtual BoF
X-BeenThere: manycouches@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "List is a design team list to identify issues that would arise should an IETF meeting ever be held with O\(1000\) 'remote' participants." <manycouches.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/manycouches>, <mailto:manycouches-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/manycouches/>
List-Post: <mailto:manycouches@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:manycouches-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches>, <mailto:manycouches-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 01:05:26 -0000

On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:17 PM, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote:
>> The problem is that the IETF leadership may not be able to see the
>> problem clearly because it’s so far outside of the scope of standard
>> operating procedure, and convincing them to take the lead on this
>> probably won’t work—it hasn’t in the past. 
> 
> I'd not be so harsh on the IESG, the poor things:-)
> When you and I were on that, we were the same people
> but probably just busy with other stuff. But…


Sorry, that wasn’t intended to be harsh.   It’s just kind of how it is—when you’re on the IESG, figuring out how to not have meetings just isn’t something you’re likely to have much time for.   My point was really that putting this on the IESG isn’t really the right thing do to.