Re: [MEDIACTRL] Call Flows Document

Just to clarify, we've so far already tried to keep the call flows  
document synced with the mediactrl drafts as well as we could. Of  
course, when IETF meetings and the like are on their way, there are  
deadlines to abide by, and this applies to both normative documents  
and our work. This means that, if drafts are uploaded like one day  
before the deadline, we can't possibly update ours accordingly in  
time; at least not as long as we won't have ten or more engineers to  
whip and force to do the dirty work for us, which is unlikely to ever  
happen ;)

The next version of the draft will have the call flows updated with  
respect to the mixer draft too, which we already implemented anyway.

Lorenzo

Quoting "DOLLY, MARTIN C, ATTLABS" <mdolly@att.com>:

> Greetings,
>
> I agree with Spencer that this should be a WG item, but not now, as to
> focus cycles on the other documents. As the other documents, that would
> feed into this document become more stable, we would make this a WG
> item.
>
> Whether a individual or WG item, it should get meeting time.
>
> Common sense dictates, as many folks have stated, that the document
> needs to be updated to be in-sync with the normative drafts.
>
> Martin
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: mediactrl-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mediactrl-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf Of Eric Burger
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 1:48 PM
> To: mediactrl@ietf.org
> Subject: [MEDIACTRL] Call Flows Document
>
>
> At the meeting today, we discussed at length the issues around adding
> <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-miniero-mediactrl-escs-02.txt
>> , "Media Control Channel Framework (CFW) Call Flow Examples" as a work
> group item.
>
>
> To recap:
> 1. Just about everyone stated it is extremely useful to have call flows.
>    a. Important for us as protocol developers to debug the
> specification,
>       e.g., "Oops - we forgot that message"
>    b. Important for some developers with interpretation of the
> specifications
>    c. Important for interoperability testing
>
>
> 2. Many people pointed out call flow documents have their drawbacks.
>    a. Some people will code to the call flows and not to the
> specification.
>       i.  If the call flows are wrong, the developer will code the wrong
> thing.
>       ii. Call flows cannot capture the nuances of the protocol, such as
>           non-deterministic message order or legal, but not shown in a
>           call flow, messages that pop up
>    b. When people see a call flow document, they may not read the
>       specification at all.
>    c. When people see a Work Group *draft*, they may consider it to be
>       a stable, authoritative reference.
>
>
> It would be safe to say that no matter what we decide here, there will
> be a call flows document.  The questions to decide are:
>
>
> 1. What document(s) will we produce?  Will we produce:
>    a. A basic call flows document, illustrating some examples of
>       how the protocol works (see draft-ietf-sipping-service-examples-15
>       for an example)
>    b. A torture test document, illustrating examples of malformed
>       messages or messages seriously out of order, that stacks
>       must not barf on (see RFC 4475 for an example)
>    c. A test suite document, describing how to achieve interoperability
>       (see
> http://www.msforum.org/techinfo/approved/MSF-IA-SIP.015-FINAL.pdf)
>    d. A plurality of a, b, or c
>    e. All of a, b, and c
>
>
> Note all call flow documents are Informational (not Normative) by
> definition.
>
>
> 2. Will the work group produce these documents?  No matter what,
> individuals
>    from the work group will write the document(s), and people in the
> work
>    group (many have already volunteered) will review the document(s).
>    a. Do they need to be Work Group documents?
>    b. Is it OK for them to be Individual documents, for now.
>
>
> Please RSVP with your views on the above questions.
>
>
> Thanks.
>

-- 
Lorenzo Miniero, Junior Researcher
Dipartimento di Informatica e Sistemistica
Universita' degli Studi di Napoli "Federico II"
Via Claudio 21 -- 80125 Napoli (Italy)
Phone: +390817683821 - Fax: +390817683816
Email: lorenzo.miniero@unina.it
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