Re: [MMUSIC] Update on Orlando time for human language draft discussion

At 8:29 PM +0100 3/10/13, Harald Alvestrand wrote:

>  On 03/10/2013 09:08 PM, Randall Gellens wrote:
>>  At 6:16 PM +0000 3/10/13, Keith (Keith) DRAGE wrote:
>>
>>>   My understanding was that the idea was to label a particular 
>>> media stream, rather than (for example) a SIP body.
>>>
>>>   Different media streams could have different labels.
>>
>>  Keith is right.  As an example, SIP might be used to setup a call 
>> with an audio stream using English and a video stream using 
>> American Sign Language.
>>
>>  SDP also allows other protocols besides SIP to be used to 
>> establish the session.
>
>  OK, but that's not what I really was thinking about....
>
>  RFC 3282 (and its predecessors as part of the HTTP protocol) 
> distinguished between two distinct fields:
>
>  - "Here's what I'm willing to accept" - where prioritization is important
>  - "Here's what I'm going to use" - where prioritization is not only 
> unimportant, it's meaningless
>
>  It might be good if whatever comes out of this discussion supports 
> making that distinction.

Do you think that the proposal in the draft now does not do so?  It 
proposes using an SDP media attribute in the offer/answer to 
negotiate language (i.e., offer includes prioritized languages and 
answer has the highest priority language supported by the other end).

>
>  You may also want to think about how language tags interact with 
> direction - if you're talking to an interpreter, where audio going 
> one way is English and what comes back is in Spanish, are you able 
> to mark the RTP session (if that's what you're marking, and not the 
> media stream) as "sending English, receiving Spanish"?

The proposal in the draft is that this be media level, not session 
level (in part because different media may use different languages, 
e.g., spoken and signed).

>
>  But this level of detail doesn't really belong on the IETF list - 
> which list should we use?

I suppose the mmusic list, since the proposal uses SDP.

>>
>>>    > -----Original Message-----
>>>>   From: mmusic-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mmusic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
>>>>   Of Harald Alvestrand
>>>>   Sent: 10 March 2013 15:07
>>>>   To: Randall Gellens
>>>>   Cc: Ari Keranen; ietf@ietf.org; Alexey Melnikov; Gunnar Hellstrom; DRAGE,
>>>>   Keith (Keith); Peter Saint-Andre; ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no;
>>>>   Flemming Andreasen; Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) Tschofenig; Peter 
>>>> Saint-Andre;
>>>>   Brian Rosen; mmusic@ietf.org
>>>>   Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Update on Orlando time for human language draft
>>>>   discussion
>>>>
>>>>   Sorry for barging in late on this thread, but quick questions:
>>>>
>>>>   - what's the right mailing list to post to on this one?
>>>>   - have everyone read RFC 3282 (the standalone "accept-language" spec)?
>>>>
>>>>   Seems to me the desired semantic is more accept-language than
>>>>   content-language.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   On 03/10/2013 03:38 PM, Randall Gellens wrote:
>>>>   > Hi Everyone,
>>>>   >
>>>>   > Thursday lunch (11:30-1:00) it is.  I'll make a reservation at The
>>>>   > Tropicale (the cafe in the Caribe Royal hotel attached to the
>>>>   > convention center).  Please let me know if you can make it so I can
>>>>   > make sure we have a large enough table.
>>>>   >
>>>>   > Thank you.
>>>>   >
>>>>   >
>>>>   >>  Hi everyone,
>>>>   >>
>>>>   >>  It looks like Thursday lunch (11:30-1:00) works well for everyone
>>>>   >> who has responded so far.  Let's plan on that for now.
>>>>   >>
>>>>   >>  At 9:35 AM -0700 3/9/13, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>>>>   >>
>>>>   >>>   It looks like Thursday lunch would
>>>>   >>>   work well.
>>>>   >>>
>>>>   >>>   On 3/5/13 4:47 AM, Randall Gellens wrote:
>>>>   >>>>   Hi all,
>>>>   >>>>
>>>>   >>>>   I created a Doodle poll to see if we can find a time in Orlando
>>>>   >>>> to meet
>>>>   >>>>   face to face.
>>>>   >>>>
>>>>   >>>>   Doodle poll for time at Orlando to discuss open issues and moving
>>>>   >>>>   forward with Human Language Negotiation:
>>>>   >>>> http://doodle.com/uwedikez6etwsf39
>>>>   >>>>
>>>>   >>>>   Link to current version (-02) of draft:
>>>>   >>>>
>>>>   >>>>
>>>>   >>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gellens-negotiating-human-
>>>>   language-02.txt
>>>>   >>>>
>>>>   >>>>
>>>>   >>
>>>>   >>
>>>>   >>  --
>>>>   >>  Randall Gellens
>>>>   >>  Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself
>>>>   only
>>>>   >>  -------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
>>>>   >>  A child of five would understand this.  Send somebody to
>>>>   >>  fetch a child of five.        --Groucho Marx, "Duck Soup"
>>>>   >
>>>>   >
>>>>
>>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>>   mmusic mailing list
>>>>   mmusic@ietf.org
>>>>   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic

-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
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