Re: [Moq] Charter adjustment

[Suhas Nandakumar <[e-mail]>]

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:34 PM Suhas Nandakumar <[e-mail]>
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:08 PM Lucas Pardue <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 21 Jul 2022, 10:16 Mo Zanaty (mzanaty), <mzanaty=
>> [e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with Ali and Dan that “on-path” has a specific meaning to many
>>> networking people which is not the meaning intended in the charter. I would
>>> contend that is a misnomer that must be removed.
>>>
>>> The discussion of middle boxes has been in the context of explicitly
>>> addressing them, not them happening to be on the network path to another
>>> endpoint and transparently mediating the packet flow addressed to that
>>> other endpoint. That is certainly a viable use case, but not one I’ve seen
>>> anyone mention, perhaps because QUIC encryption makes on-path mediation
>>> very difficult.
>>>
>>
>> QUIC makes uncoordinated middlebox behaviour difficult. Even detecting
>> QUIC traffic is tricky for such boxes. When there is coordination or
>> cooperation between endpoints and other components in the path, things are
>> a lot smoother.
>>
>> The prime example of this is QUIC load balancers that can make decisions
>> (routing/dispatching packets) based on the connection ID. The generally
>> works by the server picking IDs based on some scheme or algorithm and
>> sharing that with the load balancer.
>>
>> I think the MoQ charter needs to be clear about whether the middleboxen
>> are expected to work on: QUIC packets as opaque blobs, the frames within
>> QUIC packets once protection is removed by actors who have the session
>> keys, application data in streams, datagrams, or something else.
>>
>
> These are good points Lucas.
>


> Atleast from my reading of relays/caches in charter was that, its where
> the QUIC connection terminates (but not the MOQ) , akin to CDN , for
> example.
>


> PeerA    <-----QUIC----->  Relay <----QUIC---->  PeerB
> <---------------------------------- MOQ -------------------------->
>
Relays in the above contexts are special MOQ entities that perform specific
actions to enable MOQ protocol like
    - caching, forwarding/distributing, fragmentation where necessary,
reacting to congestion,
 These actions doesn't need access to raw media that is exchanged between
PeerA and PeerB for instance.

Cheers
> Suhas
>
>
>> Cheers
>> Lucas
>>
>