Re: [mpls] Do you care about MNA? [Was: 2nd Working Group Last call on draft-ietf-mpls-mna-requirements]

[John Drake <[e-mail]>]

 I agree.  Operator support is a red herring rather than a blue whale.

    On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 06:33:24 AM PDT, Andrew Alston <[e-mail]> wrote:  
 
 
Hi Loa,
 
  
 
Having just finished my term on the IESG – I can state quite categorically that until now I have never seen a case where the IESG has questioned if there is operator support or not for a document.  What they have questioned is if there was consensus in the working group.  The IETF process to my knowledge does not require support from any particular body – indeed – in the IETF people speak as individuals and not on behalf of their employers – hence IETF process does not actually cater for “operators” vs “vendors” – it caters for rough consensus of those who choose to participate and raise their voices.
 
  
 
RFC7282 also clearly states that lack of disagreement is more important than agreement – and what I have not seen is operator disagreement.
 
  
 
I think for the IESG to turn around and ask for “operator support” would actually potentially be a violation of the principle that people speak and express opinions as individuals – and hence – I just don’t see this concern materialising.
 
  
 
Thanks
 
  
 
Andrew
 
  
 
  
 



Internal All Employees

From: mpls <[e-mail]> on behalf of [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Tuesday, 2 April 2024 at 08:42
To: Stewart Bryant <[e-mail]>
Cc: mpls <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Do you care about MNA? [Was: 2nd Working Group Last call on draft-ietf-mpls-mna-requirements] 


All,

I'm very much on the same page as Stewart. With one caveat, the response
from the operators in this 2nd WGLC is diminishing, as compared to the 
first WGLC. Not a big difference, but nevertheless.

I think it is important to have an operator support for requirement
documents.

First, I will not object if the shepherd/chairs decide to send the document
to the IESG with a request for publication. However, I think it will be
returned with a request to show operator support.

What I think should happen now is that the shepherd/chairs keep the WGLC
open waiting for comments from operators.

/Loa

than it was for the document
in the first WGLC (not much)
> Yes, I think we are finished to the point where the wider review and
editorial process can take over.
> Stewart
>> On 30 Mar 2024, at 5:45 pm, Joel Halpern <[e-mail]> wrote:
Having reread the document, it seems to me we are at the point of
significantly diminishing returns in terms of tuning.  While I have seen
>> some useful comments on the list that can be addressed, my basic
reaction is "ship it".
>> Yours,
>> Joel
>>> On 3/28/2024 4:01 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>> I'm kind of giving you all a ticking clock reminder.
>>> Of course, I'm no longer a WG chair, so I won't be calling consensus
on
>>> this, but I will be answering the shepherd write-up question that asks
what
>>> the consensus was like on this document.
>>> If, as the general noise on the list implies, people care about MNA,
then
>>> commenting during this last call seems important.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Adrian
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mpls <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
>>> Sent: 21 March 2024 15:21
>>> To: 'mpls' <[e-mail]>
>>> Cc: [e-mail]
>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd Working Group Last call on
>>> draft-ietf-mpls-mna-requirements
>>> Hi all,
>>> I know it is IETF week and you all have other things to do (nice
meals,
>>> sight-seeing, combatting jet-lag), but I just wanted to remind you to
look
>>> at this document and make your comments about the last call.
>>> With last calls, silence generally means no support!
>>> Best,
>>> Adrian
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mpls <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
>>> Sent: 12 March 2024 16:46
>>> To: 'mpls' <[e-mail]>
>>> Cc: [e-mail]
>>> Subject: [mpls] 2nd Working Group Last call on
>>> draft-ietf-mpls-mna-requirements
>>> This email starts a second MPLS working group last call on
>>> draft-ietf-mpls-mna-requirements.
>>> (You may recall that the first last call produced a lot of discussion
and
>>> issues that Matthew, as editor, has worked valiantly to resolve.)
Please re-review the document (it has changed a lot since last time) and
>>> express an opinion on the list.
>>> - Is the document complete?
>>> - Does it contain any errors?
>>> - Is it ready to move forward for publication as an Informational RFC?
There is no IPR disclosed against this document or its predecessors. All
>>> authors, contributors, and active working group participants are
reminded of
>>> their responsibilities under BCP 79.
>>> This last call will run for three weeks (covering the IETF period). It
will
>>> end at 17.00 UTC on Tuesday 2nd April (narrowly avoiding ending on 1st
April
>>> and confusing us all).
>>> Thanks,
>>> Adrian (for the MPLS chairs)
>>> _______________________________________________
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