Re: [mpls] 2nd Working Group Last call on draft-ietf-mpls-mna-requirements

Hi all,

I support the publication.

I agree with Andrew on what was stated about SRv6, this is not a silver
bullet at all.

вт, 2 апр. 2024 г. в 20:21, John Drake <je_drake=40yahoo.com@dmarc.ietf.org
>:

> Andrew,
>
> A very thoughtful note.
>
> John
>
> On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 06:05:32 AM PDT, Andrew Alston <
> andrew.alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Tianran,
>
>
>
> I find this email to be a little… confusing.
>
>
>
> Firstly it is very well documented that there are multiple operators that
> do not want – and will not deploy – srv6 (particularly with its divergence
> from Ipv6 standards and potential security flaws.). These operators are
> free to make a choice in technologies – and the IETF does not prohibit the
> creation of multiple solutions to the same problem.  Indeed RFC7221 deals
> with competing design goals by citing
> http://dl.acm.org/ft_gateway.cfm?id=966726 – specifically it states
> “Helicopters are great, and so are submarines.  The problem is that if you
> try to build one vehicle to perform two fundamentally different jobs,
> you’re going to get a vehcile that does neither job well.”
>
>
>
> You therefore need to acknowledge that operators may have different use
> cases and different environments, and may choose to decide to use one
> technology over another.  Yes, there are times when we want a single
> solution, but at the end of the day, the operators, who are your employers
> customers, should be the ultimate determinants of what they choose to run,
> and there is no requirement in any IETF process to state that there can
> only be a single solution to a problem.
>
>
>
> Secondly, you refer to reinventing the wheel – it can be strongly argued
> that parts of SRv6 did indeed reinvent the sr-mpls wheel, while reinventing
> various other competing technologies.  By way of example, it is entirely
> possible to create L3VPN’s – and has been for years – without the use of
> SRv6.  So in this sense, you are correct that we sometimes reinvent the
> wheel – for various reasons and various purposes – and to meet operator
> requirements.  This is exactly what happened in the case of SRv6, and it is
> part and parcel of what the ietf does, to create solutions that cater to
> the needs of the internet in general, not a single vendor, not a single
> operator.  SRv6 does NOT meet the requirements of all operators, and to
> insist that it does is to disregard potential customers.
>
>
>
> You are also correct in stating that many people do not care about MNA –
> because they are quite happy with what they are running and are happy to
> continue using their currect technologies.  However, the statement seems
> predicated on the fact that everyone cares about SRv6 – let me 100% assure
> you that is not the case.  Indeed – if you watch the MSR6 BOF (which should
> be available on youtube), a particular individual from a large operator
> directly stated (slightly paraphrased) “This presentation is predicated on
> the fact that we all care about SRv6 – I am here to tell you we don’t” So
> while your statement is accurate – it is not in any way an argument against
> the adoption of MNA.
>
>
>
> I would STRONGLY suggest you read RFC7282 as well – which heavy refers to
> technical objections and even deals with a situation where one thing is
> considered a more elegant and clean solution, yet consensus is still found
> (Please see section 3 of the aforementioned RFC)
>
>
>
> In this particular case, on the specific grounds that there are operators
> who wish to have extended network functionality – but are not comfortable
> with SRv6 and do not believe in its security compromises – I fully support
> the advancement of MNA.
>
>
>
> I am curious however if you have any substantive technical issues with the
> document – that go beyond “There is something else to do this” (which as
> stated – some operators do not agree with and do not want – and will never
> run until outstanding issues have been resolved)
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Internal All Employees
> From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran=
> 40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Date: *Saturday, 30 March 2024 at 03:29
> *To: *Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
> *Cc: *mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-mpls-mna-requirements@ietf.org <
> draft-ietf-mpls-mna-requirements@ietf.org>, Zhukeyi(Kaiyin,Datacom
> Standard&Patent) <zhukeyi@huawei.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [mpls] 2nd Working Group Last call on
> draft-ietf-mpls-mna-requirements
>
> Hi Adrian,
>
> IMO, this document still cannot address the question why the industry or
> operators need the MNA, given there is already SRv6.
> >From the very beginning, we just reinvent a wheel.
> There is no surprise many people do not care about MNA.
> I do not support.
>
> Tianran
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org <mpls-bounces@ietf.org>] On
> Behalf Of Tony Li
> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 11:35 PM
> To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
> Cc: mpls <mpls@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-mpls-mna-requirements@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd Working Group Last call on
> draft-ietf-mpls-mna-requirements
>
>
> [WG chair hat: off]
>
> Looks good, ship it, modulo Greg’s comments.
>
> T
>
>
> > On Mar 21, 2024, at 8:21 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I know it is IETF week and you all have other things to do (nice
> > meals, sight-seeing, combatting jet-lag), but I just wanted to remind
> > you to look at this document and make your comments about the last call.
> >
> > With last calls, silence generally means no support!
> >
> > Best,
> > Adrian
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> > Sent: 12 March 2024 16:46
> > To: 'mpls' <mpls@ietf.org>
> > Cc: draft-ietf-mpls-mna-requirements@ietf.org
> > Subject: [mpls] 2nd Working Group Last call on
> > draft-ietf-mpls-mna-requirements
> >
> > This email starts a second MPLS working group last call on
> > draft-ietf-mpls-mna-requirements.
> >
> > (You may recall that the first last call produced a lot of discussion
> > and issues that Matthew, as editor, has worked valiantly to resolve.)
> >
> > Please re-review the document (it has changed a lot since last time)
> > and express an opinion on the list.
> > - Is the document complete?
> > - Does it contain any errors?
> > - Is it ready to move forward for publication as an Informational RFC?
> >
> > There is no IPR disclosed against this document or its predecessors.
> > All authors, contributors, and active working group participants are
> > reminded of their responsibilities under BCP 79.
> >
> > This last call will run for three weeks (covering the IETF period). It
> > will end at 17.00 UTC on Tuesday 2nd April (narrowly avoiding ending
> > on 1st April and confusing us all).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Adrian (for the MPLS chairs)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> >
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