Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file after the REMOVE
David Noveck <davenoveck@gmail.com> Mon, 02 January 2017 11:54 UTC
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From: David Noveck <davenoveck@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2017 06:54:36 -0500
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To: Rick Macklem <rmacklem@uoguelph.ca>
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Cc: Tom Talpey <tom@talpey.com>, "nfsv4@ietf.org" <nfsv4@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file after the REMOVE
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> Actually replying to a random thread, mostly Dave's... The big element of randomness/confusion is whether the questions with regard to delegations are posed with regard to NFSv4.0, in which the client is doing silly rename, NFSv4.1 in which OPEN4_RESULT_PRESERVE_UNLINKED is returned, or to a hypothetical extension in which silly rename is disallowed/deprecated. As a result, the handling of your scenario is going to have a big dose of "it depends" but I'll try to clarify as well as I can. > Is the client expected to acquire Opens against the server and return the > Delegation? (This seems like more work than just doing good old sillyrename?) In the case of v4.0, no. However, if the client is doing silly rename, then the RENAME may trigger a delegation recall. A client could choose to return the delegation in advance to forstall the need for a recall and reduce latency. After all, if you are removing a file, the consequent file non-existence assures you that no other clients have it open and the delegation might well be considered superfluous. YMMV. In the case of OPEN4_RESULT_PRESERVE_UNLINKED, the situation is unclear. The existing text is not clear as to whether the server's promise to retain the inode as long as the file is open applies in the case in which a delegation allows a client-local open to exist. If we decide to try to revitalize OPEN4_RESULT_PRESERVE_UNLINKED (unlikely in my opinion), it needs to be clear that the potential existence of local open needs to be taken into account. However, if this is done it should be clear that there is no requirement to promptly resolve the question of the existence of such local opens. With regard to a hypothetical replacement for OPEN4_RESULT_PRESERVE_UNLINKED, the handling should be the same. > Or does a Delegation have the same effect as an Open against the file on the server. That's the way things should be, if the server is making the decision, but but we are not there yet. On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Rick Macklem <rmacklem@uoguelph.ca> wrote: > Tom Talpey wrote: > On 1/1/2017 8:13 AM, David Noveck wrote: > > Btw, my preferred title for such a document, almost certain to be > > rejected, is "Silly Rename Must Die" :-) > Actually replying to a random thread, mostly Dave's... > > A case that I wasn't clear on w.r.t. this is: > - The client holds a delegation for the file. > - The client issues opens locally w.r.t. this delegation. > - A process/thread on the client does a "Remove" of the file. > > Is the client expected to acquire Opens against the server and return the > Delegation? (This seems like more work than just doing good old > sillyrename?) > - Or does a Delegation have the same effect as an Open against the file on > the > server. > > rick > > _______________________________________________ > nfsv4 mailing list > nfsv4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nfsv4 >
- [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file after… Marcel Telka
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… David Noveck
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Marcel Telka
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… David Noveck
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Marcel Telka
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… David Noveck
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Marcel Telka
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Marcel Telka
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Trond Myklebust
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Trond Myklebust
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Marcel Telka
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… David Noveck
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Marcel Telka
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Trond Myklebust
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… J. Bruce Fields
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… David Noveck
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Trond Myklebust
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Trond Myklebust
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Benny Halevy
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Trond Myklebust
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Bruce James Fields
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Christoph Hellwig
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… David Noveck
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… David Noveck
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Christoph Hellwig
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Tom Talpey
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Rick Macklem
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Trond Myklebust
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… David Noveck
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… David Noveck
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Trond Myklebust
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… David Noveck
- Re: [nfsv4] RFC 7530: Filehandle of opened file a… Trond Myklebust