Re: [Ntp] Timescales

Steve Allen <sla@ucolick.org> Wed, 09 December 2020 16:29 UTC

Return-Path: <sla@ucolick.org>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 968E23A0EC4 for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:29:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XAigJzDx3OKV for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:29:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp.ucolick.org (zilan.ucolick.org [128.114.23.234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 899D33A0EA6 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:29:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp.ucolick.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ucolick.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 597EB2A80 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:29:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: from geneva.ucolick.org (geneva.ucolick.org [128.114.23.183]) by smtp.ucolick.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 568F029E9 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:29:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: from geneva.ucolick.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by geneva.ucolick.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E3C7768 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:29:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: (from sla@localhost) by geneva.ucolick.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id 0B9GTNl3003916 for ntp@ietf.org; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:29:23 -0800
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 08:29:23 -0800
From: Steve Allen <sla@ucolick.org>
To: NTP WG <ntp@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <20201209162923.GO2553@ucolick.org>
References: <20201209101830.7CB0240605C@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net> <058712d2-d031-65a6-d816-0b28c56cf87b@rubidium.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <058712d2-d031-65a6-d816-0b28c56cf87b@rubidium.se>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.2 (2017-12-15)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/VyOldDdHoDqDYu1-RY5rxhSiWf8>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] Timescales
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 16:29:26 -0000

On Wed 2020-12-09T14:06:50+0100 Magnus Danielson hath writ:
> The most robust solutions is creating a time-scale that is some
> well-defined shift from TAI, and then provide the TAI-UTC difference
> explicitly along with a pre-warning system. Look at for instance GPS [1]
> and PTP [2]. I've chosen this path myself and it has worked very nicely.
>
> So, this is not a crazy idea, it's robust engineering proven in battle.
>
> What is problematic is able to support backward compatibility to the
> classical NTP time-scale as this needs to be handled in all time-stamps.

The extended discussion in the NTPWG now is strikingly similar to the
arguments in the late 1960s which resulted in leap seconds.
A 1969 report analyzing the options pointed out that leap seconds
would cause problems in precise timing systems used for navigation.
Backward compatibility concerns forced the international agreement to
have leap seconds.  Before the first leap second the technical members
of the committees proceeded to change their operational systems to use
purely atomic time with no leaps, and that choice was repeated for
GPS, Galileo, BeiDou, etc. because it was the only robust way.

--
Steve Allen                    <sla@ucolick.org>              WGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB 260  Natural Sciences II, Room 165  Lat  +36.99855
1156 High Street               Voice: +1 831 459 3046         Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064           https://www.ucolick.org/~sla/  Hgt +250 m