[Ntp] Antwort: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp
kristof.teichel@ptb.de Sat, 08 December 2018 20:39 UTC
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From: kristof.teichel@ptb.de
To: Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org>
Cc: ntp@ietf.org
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Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2018 21:39:02 +0100
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Subject: [Ntp] Antwort: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp
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-----"ntp" <ntp-bounces@ietf.org> schrieb: -----
Von: "Harlan Stenn"
Gesendet von: "ntp"
Datum: 07.12.2018 23:05
Betreff: Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp
Autokey, as soon as possible.
As written, I am opposed to the adoption of this proposal, as the
detailed objections and concerns I have repeatedly raised have still not
been addressed.
Off the top of my head, here is a (partial?) summary of my objections:
- we have long earmarked EF type 4 for NTS, and this is still not in the
document as a recommendation for IANA. In particular, if the proposal
advances as written we would want to see:
| 0x0104 | * NTS Unique Identifier Request |
| 0x8104 | * NTS Unique Identifier Response |
| 0x0204 | * NTS Cookie |
| 0x0304 | * NTS Cookie Placeholder |
| 0x0404 | * NTS AEEF Request |
| 0x8404 | * NTS AEEF Response |
(or similar). There is no good reason to leave it up to IANA to
possibly assign 6 random EFs for this use case.
draft-stenn-ntp-extension-fields (for which I will be trying to post an
update soon) clearly and simply describes this.
- The proposal is too monolithic, and we would all be better served with
a proposal that separates the cookie mechanism and encrypted transfers
into separately-usable mechanisms. There may be other similar cases as
well, but my brain is too fuzzy right now to think more about this.
- It creates a separate TCP service/port specifically for NTS key
exchange. This is wasteful in general, and would be better served by
folks collaborating on:
draft-stenn-ntp-tcp-services
draft-stenn-ntp-tcp-services-keyexchange
- The proposal uses multiple Cookie and Cookie Placeholder messages (as
I recall - see my other message about the cold I'm still recovering
from) instead of having a single Cookie and Cookie Placeholder message
that supports multiple entries. This would not be an issue if 7822 did
not specify a 28-octet minimum final EF size, or if
draft-stenn-ntp-extension-fields was implemented (or being considered,
even).
- It only supports client/server mode, and it does so in a way for which
adding support for symmetric and [mb]*cast modes had been demonstrated
to be problematic. We need an encompassing solution, and this isn't it.
It would not surprise me at all to discover issues I have forgotten to
list above that are in my previous messages on this topic.
I'm sorry I haven't had the resources to once again re-study and re-list
my objections to this proposal.
Dave Mills has posted several papers about the above problems including
a proposed solution, but for whatever reasons, for years we have
continued to pursue this increasingly limited solution instead of
working towards a better/more functional solution.
As I said in an earlier message, Dave is currently unable to receive or
send email messages, so he apparenetly can't participate in this WGLC.
--
Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org>
http://networktimefoundation.org" rel="nofollow">http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
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- [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Karen O'Donoghue
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Loganaden Velvindron
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Martin Langer
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Martin Langer
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Karen O'Donoghue
- [Ntp] Fwd: WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Karen O'Donoghue
- [Ntp] Dave Mills: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Fwd: WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for… kristof.teichel
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Denis Reilly
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Marcus Dansarie
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Harlan Stenn
- [Ntp] Antwort: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts… kristof.teichel
- Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using… Harlan Stenn
- [Ntp] Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-… kristof.teichel
- Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: WGLC: draft-i… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: WGLC: draft-i… kristof.teichel
- Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using… kristof.teichel
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Dieter Sibold
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Brian Haberman
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Karen O'Donoghue
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Marcus Dansarie
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Dieter Sibold
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Salz, Rich
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Dieter Sibold
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Dieter Sibold
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Salz, Rich
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Dieter Sibold
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Martin Langer
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Dieter Sibold
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Ragnar Sundblad
- Re: [Ntp] WGLC: draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Miroslav Lichvar