Re: [nvo3] Fwd: DRAFT Charter Update for Discussion

[Benson Schliesser <[e-mail]>]

Hi, Tom.

The proposed charter that Matthew and I posted says "An NVO3 solution, also
known as a Data Center Virtual Private Network (DCVPN), is a set of
protocols and/or protocol extensions..." (see
http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/nvo3/charter-ietf-nvo3-01-rev-20140808.txt)

I'm glad to hear that you like Don's improvement to the wording. I agree
that it adds context that is useful. Is there something additional that we
should say, to be more specific about the work product / output of the WG?

Note that after we re-charter, we will need to come up with a revised set
of milestones that help us achieve the charter's goals. Those milestones
can be much more specific than the charter text, of course - we don't want
the charter capturing our goal at the level of milestones... But if the
charter itself isn't clear about the high-level goals then we should fix
that first.

Cheers,
-Benson


On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Tom Herbert <[e-mail]> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Benson Schliesser
> <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > Hi, Tom. Thanks for the comments.
> >
> > Just to reiterate / add to Matthew's response: The architecture meant to
> > describe how the control and data plane protocols relate, not apply to
> the
> > datacenter in some broader sense. Maybe it's reasonable to think of this
> in
> > terms similar to how IP addressing is coherent across both the IP header
> and
> > routing protocols... In the overlay DCVPN we have some kind of mapping
> > system that ties the planes together, and this would be described by the
> > architecture.
> >
> > That being said, assuming this description makes sense to you, do you
> have
> > any specific suggestions for improving the charter text? If our intention
> > wasn't made clear by the charter that we proposed then, by all means,
> we're
> > open to improvements.
> >
> I guess my real question was: will the output of nvo3 be a proposed
> set of standard data and/or control plane protocols for network
> virtualization. Assuming that, I like Don's suggested wording in
> describing DCVPN as "a set of protocols and/or protocol extensions."
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
> > Thanks,
> > -Benson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 3:07 AM, Bocci, Matthew (Matthew)
> > <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >> Thanks for your comments.
> >>
> >> The intention is not to try to impose an architecture on data centers.
> The
> >> architecture really provides a context in which the data and control
> plane
> >> protocols operate, and helps to define the scope of what we can define,
> or
> >> what new protocols we need to define in NVO3. If you look at other Wgs
> >> defining VPN-like technologies (L3VPN, L3VPN, PWE3, etc), they all have
> >> frameworks or architectures that do this. Ideally the architecture
> should
> >> actually help in describing modularity, in that different control/data
> >> plane protocols could be slotted in to provide different capabilities,
> as
> >> required.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Matthew
> >>
> >> On 13/08/2014 21:31, "Tom Herbert" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Benson Schliesser
> >> ><[e-mail]> wrote:
> >> >> Just a reminder that Matthew and I are looking for feedback on the
> >> >> draft
> >> >> text of a new NVO3 charter. Can it be that we wrote a charter so
> >> >> perfect
> >> >> there are no comments..?
> >> >>
> >> >Maybe just a request for clarification...
> >> >
> >> >Unless I am misreading this, it seems to me that the intent is to
> >> >create a packaged solution for data centers that combines data plane,
> >> >control, and architecture. I think these are actually very separate
> >> >facets and should really be mostly separate tracks. I would liken this
> >> >to how IP, routing protocols, and our current data center architecture
> >> >has evolved. These were never defined together and so the dependencies
> >> >between them have always been quite minimal. This has allowed us to
> >> >completely change one part with redoing the rest of world (e.g.
> >> >IPv4->IPv6, decentralized routing to open flow,..).
> >> >
> >> >It might also be nice to clarify a little more what the ultimate
> >> >output is of the WG. I assume the tangible output here would be
> >> >standardized data plane protocol(s) and control plane protocol(s).
> >> >Architecture is nice to provide a context for the protocols, but not
> >> >really something that can be standardized in itself. Every existing DC
> >> >already has an existing architecture (even before virtualization), it
> >> >is much more likely that we'd want to adapt and leverage the existing
> >> >architecture as much as possible rather than change the whole world to
> >> >accommodate NV-- which I guess is another way of saying data plane,
> >> >control plane, architecture need to be considered independently.
> >> >
> >> >Hope this helps :-)
> >> >
> >> >Tom
> >> >
> >> >> The draft charter text is quoted in my email below. For reference it
> >> >> can
> >> >> also be found at
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> >>
> http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/nvo3/charter-ietf-nvo3-01-rev-20140808.t
> >> >>xt
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> -Benson & Matthew
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> >> From: Benson Schliesser <[e-mail]>
> >> >> Date: Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 4:53 PM
> >> >> Subject: DRAFT Charter Update for Discussion
> >> >> To: [e-mail]
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Dear NVO3 Contributors -
> >> >>
> >> >> As discussed during the NVO3 meeting at IETF-90 in Toronto, the
> chairs
> >> >>have
> >> >> been drafting a new / revised charter for the WG. The latest draft
> >> >>charter
> >> >> text is below for your review.
> >> >>
> >> >> Frankly, we suspect that some of the wording could be further
> improved
> >> >>to be
> >> >> more clear and/or precise. With that in mind we ask for your help -
> >> >>please
> >> >> let us know if something seems unclear or if you have suggestions for
> >> >>better
> >> >> wording.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you have feedback please post it to the list for discussion within
> >> >>the
> >> >> next 2 weeks.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> -Benson & Matthew
> >> >>
> >> >> An NVO3 solution, also known as a Data Center Virtual Private Network
> >> >> (DCVPN),
> >> >> is a set of protocols and/or protocol extensions that address the
> >> >> issues
> >> >> described by draft-ietf-nvo3-overlay-problem-statement consistent
> with
> >> >>the
> >> >> approach described by draft-ietf-nvo3-framework.
> >> >>
> >> >> NVO3 will document DCVPN requirements for both control plane
> >> >>protocol(s) and
> >> >> data plane encapsulation format(s), as well as management,
> operational,
> >> >> maintenance, troubleshooting, security and OAM protocol requirements.
> >> >> Additionally, NVO3 will document common use-cases for DCVPN
> solutions.
> >> >>
> >> >> Consistent with the documents described above, the NVO3 WG will
> >> >>document an
> >> >> architecture for DCVPNs within a data center environment based on the
> >> >> following
> >> >> architectural design points:
> >> >> -   A logically centralized NVA control plane
> >> >> -   Support for an underlay IP data plane between NVEs
> >> >>
> >> >> Based on this architecture the NVO3 WG will develop one or more NVO3
> >> >> solutions.
> >> >> This may include documenting applicability of existing protocols,
> >> >> contributing
> >> >> to the development of protocol extensions by other WGs and/or SDOs,
> >> >>and/or
> >> >> developing new protocols as appropriate.
> >> >>
> >> >> Solutions and/or protocols that were developed outside of the IETF,
> but
> >> >>not
> >> >> developed by another SDO, and that have multiple interoperable
> >> >> implementations
> >> >> may be adopted by the NVO3 WG for further development, based on WG
> >> >> consensus,
> >> >> if requested by the authors .
> >> >>
> >> >> If the NVO3 WG anticipates the adoption of the technologies of
> another
> >> >>SDO,
> >> >> such as the IEEE, as part of any DCVPN solution, it will liaise with
> >> >>that
> >> >> SDO
> >> >> to ensure the compatibility of the approach.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> nvo3 mailing list
> >> >> [e-mail]
> >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >_______________________________________________
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> >> >[e-mail]
> >> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
> >>
> >
>