Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs
"Dr. Pala" <director@openca.org> Mon, 17 July 2017 16:58 UTC
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To: Carl Wallace <carl@redhoundsoftware.com>, pkix@ietf.org
References: <467c8936-f6aa-0853-878c-24fc8803c599@openca.org> <D5925287.981D0%carl@redhoundsoftware.com> <8fee3040-d629-762b-f5b0-b8e770911639@openca.org> <D5925FC2.98219%carl@redhoundsoftware.com>
From: "Dr. Pala" <director@openca.org>
Organization: OpenCA Labs
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:58:37 +0200
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Subject: Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs
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Hi Carl, all, yes, I agree with you that in a perfect world that would work... but lightbulbs and other small IoT will probably never do any OCSP.. so, this proposal is to address a problem that we are already seeing today and that device manufacturer are not really equipped to address and/or even understand it. It is not a perfect solution, but a possible mitigation.. :D What I understand from all the responses is that today nothing really exists, and there might be space for a simple proposal.. maybe in LAMPS or as an individual contribution. I personally think there is value for the IoT / Devices environment. Thanks everybody for your replies! Cheers, Max On 7/17/17 6:46 PM, Carl Wallace wrote: > If the system is compromised, revoke all issued certs since you > stopped using the key (assuming the system compromise isn't such that > your efforts can be undone by the attacker). You could do this fairly > easily with OCSP and a whitelist of issued certs generated when the > private key stops being used for certificates. That begs a different > question. What about responder certs? Would there be a loophole for those? > > The upside feels light relative to the challenge of updating path > validation implementations and I tend to doubt enough implementations > would pick this up to obviate the need for one of the above steps > anyway – especially when considering a target is implementations that > are already incomplete. > > From: pkix <pkix-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:pkix-bounces@ietf.org>> on > behalf of "Dr. Pala" <director@openca.org <mailto:director@openca.org>> > Organization: OpenCA Labs > Date: Monday, July 17, 2017 at 12:29 PM > To: <pkix@ietf.org <mailto:pkix@ietf.org>> > Subject: Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs > > Hi Carl, > > you are totally right :D That case would be covered by the > revocation of the CA key. However, there are also other types of > compromises (e.g., the system is compromised, but the key is not - > certificates issued by non-authorized person). > > Keep in mind that in the ecosystem where this happens (device > certs and many others) certificate revocation is not really > checked... this would limit the exposure for non-catastrophic > compromise events. > > Does this make sense ? What do you think ? > > Cheers, > Max > > [*] = I know that checking revocation is still, regrettably, not > common... > > On 7/17/17 5:42 PM, Carl Wallace wrote: >> [...] >> [CW] Wouldn't the protection need to come in the form of >> revocation? If the CA key is compromised, the validity period in >> certificates cannot be trusted. [...] > > -- > Best Regards, > Massimiliano Pala, Ph.D. > OpenCA Labs Director > OpenCA Logo > _______________________________________________ pkix mailing list > pkix@ietf.org <mailto:pkix@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pkix > -- Best Regards, Massimiliano Pala, Ph.D. OpenCA Labs Director OpenCA Logo
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Dr. Pala
- [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Dr. Pala
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Rob Stradling
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Dr. Pala
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Erik Andersen
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Dr. Pala
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Erik Andersen
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Carl Wallace
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Dr. Pala
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Carl Wallace
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Dr. Pala
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Peter Gutmann
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Erik Andersen
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs David A. Cooper
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Peter Gutmann
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs David A. Cooper
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Peter Gutmann
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Erik Andersen
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs swilson
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Dr. Pala
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Anders Rundgren
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Denis
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Carl Wallace
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs EG Giessmann
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Dr. Pala
- Re: [pkix] Managing Long-Lived CA certs Dr. Pala
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