Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series
Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Fri, 04 October 2019 09:32 UTC
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To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
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From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2019 10:31:49 +0100
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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series
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Hiya, Answers to Brian, John, and Christian (from the other thread) below... On 03/10/2019 23:40, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>> A first important consequence is that major decisions about the >>> future of the RFC Series must be taken by a consensus of a very broad >>> community. That doesn't mean the IETF or the IAB. It means the IETF >>> and IAB, plus the IRTF, plus many other people who have contributed >>> to, or made use of, the RFC Series over the last fifty years. How to >>> reach out to this community is in itself a big question. >> >> Do you think that's a different set of people than "RFC >> readers"? If so, how? > > As you hint below, implementors may in effect be part of the > RFC user community even if they don't actually read the text. > And other such as lobbyists and politicians in some cases. > And consumer advocates. So the boundary is bound to be fuzzy. > I don't think there's any point in trying to define it precisely; > we just have to recognise that it's not just "us" for any > reasonable definition of "us", so we have a broad responsibility. I think I disagree about the level of fuzziness that's ok here. If we extend to all 7.7 billion people then there's no way in the world anyone could really consult the non-IETF bits of the community. So I think I'd argue that a direct connection to the RFC series (e.g. being a reader) is needed if we're to get a common understanding of this bigger community. Yes, that'd omit some who implement from stackexchange but that might be good enough. Personally, I have absolutely no problem not including lobbyists in our description of that community. (But note that this need not be exclusionary - all that lobbyist has to do is read an RFC to get back in:-) On 04/10/2019 00:22, John C Klensin wrote: > I would suggest that it implies not only "readers of RFCs" > (your categorization later in your note) but everyone who > is dependent on them. But that is basically the entire planet, right? (So same point as I made above seems to me to apply.) But if I'm wrong, can you help me understand (e.g. via examples) who you think is in, and not in, the community as you envisage it? On 04/10/2019 08:51, Christian Huitema wrote: > > I have heard Brian Carpenter's argument that if there is not an > authorship community, there is a readership community. That leaves me > skeptical. Clearly, authors and publishers should care about their > readership, and I wish we had better ways to assess the impact of our > publications. But passive readership does not create a community, no > more than me reading ITU publications makes me part of the ITU > community. What creates a community is engagement, contributions and > sharing. I guess I disagree with you there Christian - ISTM that at the very least, people who read RFCs and write related code that is part of many network stacks, but who do not engage with the IETF or RFC editor at all, do deserve more consideration than you imply. I can see arguments for a bigger set of people deserving consideration but omitting the above example set seems just broken to me. Cheers, S.
_______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest
- [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Sarah Banks
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Sarah Banks
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Stephen Farrell
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Sarah Banks
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period S Moonesamy
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Adam Roach
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Jim Schaad
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period S Moonesamy
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Adrian Farrel
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Salz, Rich
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period S Moonesamy
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] New proposal/New SOW comment p… Christian Huitema
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] New proposal/New SOW comment p… Jim Schaad
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Eliot Lear
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] New proposal/New SOW comment p… Julian Reschke
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] New proposal/New SOW comment p… S Moonesamy
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Michael StJohns
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Adam Roach
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Michael StJohns
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Adam Roach
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Sarah Banks
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Sarah Banks
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Sarah Banks
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] New proposal/New SOW comment p… Sarah Banks
- Re: [rfc-i] [Rsoc] New proposal/New SOW comment p… Jim Schaad
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Adrian Farrel
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Michael StJohns
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Sarah Banks
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Sarah Banks
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Sarah Banks
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Ted Lemon
- Re: [rfc-i] [IAB] New proposal/New SOW comment pe… Christian Huitema
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Sarah Banks
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Ted Lemon
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] New proposal/New SOW comment period Sarah Banks
- Re: [rfc-i] [IAB] New proposal/New SOW comment pe… John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] [IAB] New proposal/New SOW comment pe… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [rfc-i] [IAB] New proposal/New SOW comment pe… Brian E Carpenter
- [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series (was: Re: … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series (was: … John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] [IAB] New proposal/New SOW comment pe… Christian Huitema
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series Stephen Farrell
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series Christian Huitema
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series Leif Johansson
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series Stephen Farrell
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series Randy Bush
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series Stephen Farrell
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series S Moonesamy
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series Stephen Farrell
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rfc-i] "community" for the RFC series Christian Huitema
- Re: [rfc-i] [IAB] "community" for the RFC series Colin Perkins