Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling discussion (NB: Action items enclosed!)
Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> Wed, 12 October 2011 12:44 UTC
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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 14:25:03 +0200
From: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
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To: Tim Panton <tim@phonefromhere.com>
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Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling discussion (NB: Action items enclosed!)
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On 10/12/11 14:13, Tim Panton wrote: > > On 12 Oct 2011, at 12:39, Harald Alvestrand wrote: > >> On 10/12/11 12:31, Tim Panton wrote: >>> >>> On 12 Oct 2011, at 11:00, Harald Alvestrand wrote: >>> >>>> On 10/12/11 11:46, Neil Stratford wrote: >>>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Harald Alvestrand >>>>> <harald@alvestrand.no <mailto:harald@alvestrand.no>> wrote >>>>> >>>>> One of the worries I have with doing a "low level spec" >>>>> unconstrained by our present competence (ignorance?) in is >>>>> that I'm reasonably sure we have the knowledge to generate and >>>>> parse SDP, because the codebases we are building on already >>>>> generate and parse SDP, and the information present there is >>>>> enough to set up calls, because we're already setting up calls >>>>> using that information. >>>>> >>>>> I'm less sure of our "getting things right" if we start off by >>>>> describing the capabilities and control knobs to be exposed in >>>>> an unconstrained API. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As a counter argument, those very same codebases that generate and >>>>> parse SDP also contain internal APIs that look a lot like a low >>>>> level spec API, and the information they present is enough to >>>>> generate and parse SDP and set up calls. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe we don't like those APIs and perhaps they expose too much as >>>>> they were never intended to be made public, but they do exist already. >>>> Yup. And I suspect they're all subtly different. >>>> >>> >>> You could look at that in a positive light - >>> as evidence that there are multiple ways to solve this problem and >>> deduce: >>> a) it isn't impossibly hard >>> b) there isn't one 'correct' way of doing it. >>> >>> Which would lead me back to specifying as _little_ as possible and >>> letting innovation take place. >>> >> We have to specify enough for interoperation in at least the use >> cases of the scenarios document. >> In enough detail for interoperation to happen. >> >> That could turn out to be a lot, especially if we can't point to >> existing specs and say "use that". > > So, to paraphrase (and make sure I understand) - your argument is that > if we don't use SDP, > we will have to specify all the fields and associated meanings for > every codec we expect to support. > > If we do use SDP, then we just point at existing usage and say - > 'there, use that' . > > If we use a subset or variant on SDP we can say - 'use that, except > for this bit to do with port allocation'. > > Is that a fair (if informal) summary? Yes, exactly. We've been around this bush a few times under the guise of "why don't we redefine SDP in JSON" or "why don't we redefine SDP in XML"; this time, it somewhat resembles "why don't we reencode SDP as API calls". I believe a lot of the same arguments apply.
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Ted Hardie
- [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling discuss… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Ravindran Parthasarathi
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Ravindran Parthasarathi
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Neil Stratford
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Neil Stratford
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Making progress on the signaling dis… Randell Jesup