Re: [rtcweb] Support DTMF "codec" or expose DTMF in signaling? (Re: DTMF usecase before DTMF API)

Matthew Kaufman <matthew.kaufman@skype.net> Fri, 18 November 2011 11:56 UTC

Return-Path: <matthew.kaufman@skype.net>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A708521F8B0A for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 18 Nov 2011 03:56:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.399
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FRibQxEFupTf for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 18 Nov 2011 03:56:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx.skype.net (mx.skype.net [78.141.177.88]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5352F21F8B02 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Nov 2011 03:56:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx.skype.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.skype.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A49716F3; Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:56:03 +0100 (CET)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=skype.net; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=mx; bh=Q0hTaZzHpNOXfq czOMneCmrVBdE=; b=t8co8l4xyuGARG6/qnqeK4HfuRprttT+AWP3I2lzuRTNgE B/R2fyl5QFEWGOBO5YbUKsDJYOBqvUd/FOjJffu9JGXFl6CpcxlnX1qySfACIqfq J1nkuf3ImLvg7F0F0iccq1C2e8aS5WnjlEdBgAJ8tW3fH5WZXIfeVPfFEvK6E=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=skype.net; h=message-id:date:from :mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type: content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=mx; b=C5YdMffELmL/TnysGiM+iI NZCgU1ghFxAMlPPHWW7i+FAnzLF1+lOQR5oi8saf+lW1bggPsGE4mZ+BNR9D+L8Z jewQJQpgdcjaqJi4Hlx5b9FzPOo2NShxtmgz4G13c98sJccn6/g61QL9uV2Ie3P4 eTWYKVFNiUGjzXOukI83Q=
Received: from zimbra.skype.net (zimbra.skype.net [78.141.177.82]) by mx.skype.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C927EB; Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:56:03 +0100 (CET)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.skype.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61C0D3507405; Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:56:03 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at lu2-zimbra.skype.net
Received: from zimbra.skype.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.skype.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wdoOWua-2PqG; Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:55:59 +0100 (CET)
Received: from Matthew-Kaufman-Air.local (unknown [203.69.99.16]) by zimbra.skype.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 79CE635073EC; Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:55:56 +0100 (CET)
Message-ID: <4EC647C8.1090606@skype.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 19:55:52 +0800
From: Matthew Kaufman <matthew.kaufman@skype.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Saúl Ibarra Corretgé <saul@ag-projects.com>
References: <CAOJ7v-18cNX8xussOPXSEoFxAARu8WriL8XgxPVUXBrWhz=FFg@mail.gmail.com> <4EC28CF5.6000109@jesup.org> <D666B5A5-BF2E-46B7-B97F-06C3736E8357@acmepacket.com> <CAOJ7v-3v5Zu9ZOuL3Qqu+aEDJ4a3cqH+oJ2yj_ewOpxKe=jA_g@mail.gmail.com> <733D6CE2-2360-4688-8268-3503F7E2460C@acmepacket.com> <9A05449A-C0FB-4548-AA80-728EC82218BB@acmepacket.com> <387F9047F55E8C42850AD6B3A7A03C6C01CE9B22@inba-mail01.sonusnet.com> <4EC5C6FB.4040804@alvestrand.no> <6725A83E-0BB0-4F86-AB27-75027E317710@acmepacket.com> <4EC60963.8060508@alvestrand.no> <CALiegfmFizZ7zC55MCHVs_w6EO-FHfn2fSH4+yqCD5O82T3MTw@mail.gmail.com> <4EC63561.10909@skype.net> <19BDB368-9F0F-4DA2-B9EC-16D5586CFFEC@ag-projects.com>
In-Reply-To: <19BDB368-9F0F-4DA2-B9EC-16D5586CFFEC@ag-projects.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cc: "<rtcweb@ietf.org>" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Support DTMF "codec" or expose DTMF in signaling? (Re: DTMF usecase before DTMF API)
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:56:08 -0000

On 11/18/11 6:48 PM, Saúl Ibarra Corretgé wrote:
>>> In case http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kaplan-dispatch-info-dtmf-package-00
>>> becomes a standard, there is no need to send DTMF over the media
>>> stream (when interoperating with SIP networks). Since this just
>>> concerns the in-the-wire signaling it becomes up to the application
>>> developer.
>>>
>>>
>> Are you advocating that we not put DTMF-in-media support in browsers (in which case I have a good argument against), or are you simply making an observation about an alternative that may also become available?
>>
> Do you have any application for DTMF in mind other than PSTN interoperability? I'd like to hear that argument against not having DTMF-in-media support in the browser :-)
>

Sure. Two-way radio systems using ROIP.

For example, from 
http://www.safecomprogram.gov/SiteCollectionDocuments/BSICoreImplementationProfile.pdf

"6.4 DTMF

A BSI complying with this implementation profile MUST support “RTP 
Payload for DTMF
Digits, Telephony Tones and Telephony Signals”, RFC 4733 [7] for the 
sending and
receiving of DTMF digits."

And of course, yes, *also* PSTN interoperability.

Matthew Kaufman