Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue CA certificate
"Santosh Chokhani" <SChokhani@cygnacom.com> Tue, 30 December 2008 23:30 UTC
Return-Path: <saag-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: saag-archive@ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-saag-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70B5528C312; Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:30:27 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: saag@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: saag@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E040F28C312 for <saag@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:30:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.232
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.232 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.237, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_OPENWHOIS=1.13]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EbeRUJgFPuqQ for <saag@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:30:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: from scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com (scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com [65.242.48.253]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E95E028C20A for <saag@ietf.org>; Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:30:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 29881 invoked from network); 30 Dec 2008 23:30:38 -0000
Received: from SChokhani@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4; 30 Dec 2008 23:30:38 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO scygexch1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.8) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 30 Dec 2008 23:30:38 -0000
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:30:13 -0500
Message-ID: <FAD1CF17F2A45B43ADE04E140BA83D4893657C@scygexch1.cygnacom.com>
In-Reply-To: <9D2E555A-7A24-4FA7-ABF9-33F6F55AA8F2@checkpoint.com>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue CA certificate
Thread-Index: AclqylLTk2EWxsuuQ1C7rI9Jvd/JmAADAnAQ
References: <200812301605.mBUG5cKU027325@raisinbran.srv.cs.cmu.edu><9535147E88DA266C69B983D0@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu><p0624081dc5802a331eac@[10.20.30.158]><alpine.LFD.1.10.0812301313570.2644@perf.cac.washington.edu> <9D2E555A-7A24-4FA7-ABF9-33F6F55AA8F2@checkpoint.com>
From: Santosh Chokhani <SChokhani@cygnacom.com>
To: Yoav Nir <ynir@checkpoint.com>, RL 'Bob' Morgan <rlmorgan@washington.edu>
Cc: ietf-pkix@imc.org, ietf-smime@imc.org, cfrg@irtf.org, saag@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue CA certificate
X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group <saag.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag>, <mailto:saag-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/pipermail/saag>
List-Post: <mailto:saag@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:saag-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag>, <mailto:saag-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: saag-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: saag-bounces@ietf.org
Let us leave the trust anchors alone. Your challenge of protecting trust anchors does not change even if you use SHA 512 or next generation hash function yet to be determined. -----Original Message----- From: saag-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:saag-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Yoav Nir Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 5:02 PM To: RL 'Bob' Morgan Cc: ietf-pkix@imc.org; ietf-smime@imc.org; cfrg@irtf.org; saag@ietf.org Subject: Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue CA certificate >> Regardless of that, the authors of the MD5 paper are correct: trust >> anchors signed with MD5 are highly questionable as of today (well, >> actually, since they published their last paper). Hopefully, the >> maintainers of the popular trust anchor repositories (Microsoft, >> Mozilla, etc.) will yank out the trust anchors signed with MD5 (and >> MD2!) as soon as possible. > > This is a different claim than "CAs should stop issuing certs with > MD5 signatures", which is what I as an amateur take away from a > quick scan of the material. Obviously MD5 is suspect in various > ways, but does this new work lead to the conclusion that MD5-signed > roots are untrustworthy today? > Replacing a root is a much bigger deal then changing signing > practices. > > - RL "Bob" CAs should have stopped issuing certs with MD5 signatures 4 years ago, when the first practical attacks on MD5 were published. Now it would be more correct to say that "relying parties should treat as invalid any certificate chain that contains an MD5 (or MD2, MD4) signature" Since in the HTTPS context the relying parties are the browsers, it falls to the vendors (if Microsoft leads, everyone will follow) to, as Paul said, yank the trust anchors. It should be noted, though, that yanking the trust anchors is not enough. You really should change the relying party to not recognize this algorithm. Otherwise, it's perfectly valid for a CA whose certificate is signed with SHA1 to sign an intermediate CA certificate with MD5 (although they usually don't do that, I hope) Email secured by Check Point _______________________________________________ saag mailing list saag@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag _______________________________________________ saag mailing list saag@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag
- [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue CA ce… Russ Housley
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Russ Housley
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Russ Housley
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Yoav Nir
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Russ Housley
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Russ Housley
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Hugo Krawczyk
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… RJ Atkinson
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Vishwas Manral
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … RJ Atkinson
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Peter Gutmann
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Peter Gutmann
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Ben Laurie
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] RFC analyzing IETF use of hash functio… Sean Shen
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Ben Laurie
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Ben Laurie
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Sean Shen
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Yoav Nir
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Yoav Nir
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Peter Gutmann
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… RL 'Bob' Morgan
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Peter Hesse
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Blake Ramsdell
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Scott Rea
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Timothy J. Miller
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Timothy J. Miller
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Timothy J. Miller
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Tim Moses
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Mike
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Richard Graveman
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Mike
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Dr Stephen Henson
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Timothy J. Miller
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Timothy J. Miller
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Timothy J. Miller
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Timothy J. Miller
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Timothy J. Miller
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Philipp Guehring
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Mike
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Peter Hesse
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Weger, B.M.M. de
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Yoav Nir
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Yoav Nir
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… der Mouse
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… RJ Atkinson
- [saag] attacks on keyed-hash constructions [was: … David McGrew
- Re: [saag] attacks on keyed-hash constructions [w… RJ Atkinson
- [saag] RFC analyzing IETF use of hash functions [… David McGrew
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] RFC analyzing IETF use of hash … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [saag] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a rogue C… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] RFC analyzing IETF use of hash … Vishwas Manral
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Stephen Kent
- Re: [saag] RFC analyzing IETF use of hash functio… Sean Turner
- Re: [saag] RFC analyzing IETF use of hash functio… David McGrew
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] RFC analyzing IETF use of hash … David McGrew
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Timothy J. Miller
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Timothy J. Miller
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] attacks on keyed-hash construct… Christian Rechberger
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] RFC analyzing IETF use of hash … Ran Canetti
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] Further MD5 breaks: Creating a … Timothy J. Miller
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] RFC analyzing IETF use of hash … David McGrew
- Re: [saag] [Cfrg] RFC analyzing IETF use of hash … Joseph Salowey (jsalowey)