Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiating-human-language-07.txt
Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org> Wed, 01 March 2017 17:50 UTC
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2017 09:50:36 -0800
To: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>, Gunnar Hellström <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>
From: Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org>
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Cc: slim@ietf.org, "Phillips, Addison" <addison@lab126.com>, Natasha Rooney <nrooney@gsma.com>, Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiating-human-language-07.txt
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At 8:34 AM -0500 3/1/17, Brian Rosen wrote: > I haven't commented on this thread much, but I agree with Randall. > > I am opposed to a protocol document saying > anything about human interface. The answering > device may be an automaton, and there could be > very good reasons to not tell the human which > languages/media are not the least preferred. > > Designing good user interfaces is very hard, > the participants on this list are not experts, > and we should not offer advice on human factors > in our documents. It is sufficient to > transport the information across the wire. Hi Brian, Gunnar's proposal is now a means of conveying additional information that can be used by the UI but does not discuss UI. However, I think this is better done in a new Informational (or maybe BCP) draft that offers advice to implementers and can discuss the various use cases. >> On Mar 1, 2017, at 2:26 AM, Gunnar Hellström >> <<mailto:gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se> >> wrote: >> >> Hi Randall, >> >> Den 2017-03-01 kl. 02:08, skrev Randall Gellens: >> >>> Hi Gunnar, >>> >>> I'm starting a new message to cut out the huge amount of quoting. >>> >>> Your proposal is that text be added that >>> advises the calling client to place an >>> asterisk on the least-preferred >>> language/media, and advises the answering >>> client to indicate to the answering human >>> which language/media is not the least >>> preferred (did not have an asterisk in the >>> offer), is that accurate? >>> >> Yes, with slight rewording to: >> "text that advises the offering client to >> place an asterisk on the least-preferred >> language/media indications, and advises the >> answering client to indicate to the answering >> human which language/media are not the least >> preferred (did not have an asterisk in the >> offer)" >> >> The inclusion of the "indications" is just to >> assure that it is clear that it does not need >> to be just one indication that gets the >> asterisk . >> The last part sounds awkward, but matches >> technically what the lack of an asterisk >> means. I inherited the inverted logic for the >> asterisk from its already defined non-denial >> meaning. >> If you are considering wording for the draft, >> I suggest that you straighten the logic to say >> "which language/media are most preferred (did >> not have an asterisk in the offer)" >> >> It does also not need to be an "answering >> human" that gets this indication and makes use >> of it for guidance on how to answer the call. >> It can just as well be e.g. a multi-modal >> answering machine or some other application >> interacting with human language. I am not sure >> if "answering party" is more appropriate and >> can be considered including such automata. >> >> Thanks, >> Gunnar >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SLIM mailing list >> <mailto:SLIM@ietf.org>SLIM@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- There are two kinds of lawyers, those who know the law and those who know the judge.
- [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiating-hu… internet-drafts
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Brian Rosen
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Arnoud van Wijk
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Natasha Rooney
- Re: [Slim] I-D Action: draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Gunnar Hellström