Re: [straw] IETF#90: Draft STRAW minutes

[Mary Barnes <[e-mail]>]

Hi Christer,

I have one point for clarification below wrt our lively discussion around
DTLS-SRTP.

Mary.


On Sat, Jul 26, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Christer Holmberg <
[e-mail]> wrote:

>  (Co-chair)
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Below are the STRAW minutes that the chairs intend to upload.
>
>
>
> However, before we do that, we would like to ask the community to take a
> look at least at the notes associated with the DTLS-SRTP presentation, as
> it caused lots of discussion.
>
>
>
> Note that the minutes do not contain who-said-what information (that can
> be found elsewhere), but if you think there are some important things
> missing, or if you think something is wrong, please let the chairs now.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Christer & Victor
>
>
>
> -------------------
>
>
>
> *IETF 90 - STRAW*
>
> *1150-1320 EDT    Friday Afternoon Session I*
>
>
>
>
>
> *Topic:     Agenda bashing, IETF Note Well and WG status*
>
> *Presenter: Christer Holmberg (co-chair)*
>
> *Slides:
> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-straw-0.pdf
> <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-straw-0.pdf>*
>
> *Draft:     N/A*
>
>
>
>
>
> No issues were identified.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Topic:     Guidelines to support RTCP in B2BUAs*
>
> *Presenter: Lorenzo Miniero*
>
> *Slides:
> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-straw-1.pdf
> <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-straw-1.pdf> *
>
> *Draft:     draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-rtcp *
>
>
>
>
>
> It was indicated that XR needs to be looked into, to see whether something
> needs to be covered in the draft.
>
>
>
> It was indicated that the terminology will be aligned with the
> grouping-taxonomy draft. In case there are conflicts, or other issues are
> found, the STRAW community is requested to provide comments on the
> grouping-taxonomy draft.
>
>
>
> It was requested whether the draft should also cover RTP specific issues.
> It was indicated that the scope of the RTCP, and that we should be very
> careful about introducing RTP issues. It was recommended to talk to Colin
> Perkins whether he has any opinions regarding the need to cover RTP.
>
>
>
> I was asked how the document will relate to the work on multisource
> optimisation taking place in AVTEXT.
>
>
>
> It was indicated that the text recommending man in the middle
> functionality for SRTP most likely will cause issues with IESG. After the
> DTLS-SRTP discussion (see further down) it was suggested that the RTCP
> draft should not talk about SRTP.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Topic:     Taxonomy Discussion*
>
> *Presenter: Lorenzo Miniero*
>
> *Slides:
> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-straw-2.pdf
> <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-straw-2.pdf> *
>
> *Draft:     All STRAW deliveries *
>
>
>
>
>
> It was agreed the STRAW shall use the terms in the
> avtext-grouping-taxonomy document in preference to definitions elsewhere is
> they are appropriate, with a note indicating any differences in other
> documents that may influence understanding.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Topic:     STUN handling in B2BUAs*
>
> *Presenter: Lorenzo Miniero (on behalf of the draft authors)*
>
> *Slides:
> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-straw-3.pdf
> <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-straw-3.pdf> *
>
> *Draft:     draft-ram-straw-b2bua-stun *
>
>
>
>
>
> It was indicated that B2BUA, due to policy reasons, may strip candidates
> from SDP.
>
>
>
> It was indicated that B2BUAs must be very careful to not perform actions
> that will cause ICE mismatch.
>
>
>
> The chair informed the community that a WG adoption request will be sent
> out within the upcoming weeks.
>
>
>
> It was indicated that the group needs to follow the ICE bis work taking
> place in MMUSIC, in case there will be any impacts on the STRAW draft.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Topic:     DTLS-SRTP handling in B2BUAs*
>
> *Presenter: Lorenzo Miniero (on behalf of the draft authors)*
>
> *Slides:
> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-straw-4.pdf
> <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/slides/slides-90-straw-4.pdf> *
>
> *Draft:     draft-ram-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp *
>
>
>
>
>
> The presentation triggered lots of discussions and controversy, as it was
> seen as an attempt to standardize MITM (man in the middle procedures).
> While people did realize such actions take place in deployments, they
> claimed that IETF/STRAW should not standardize such procedures. It was also
> indicated that it goes against a number of BCP specifications, and RFC
> 2804. Others indicated that the purpose is to make sure that entities doing
> this kind of functionality do it in a way which does not cause
> interoperability problems, which could cause people to not use security to
> begin with.
>
>
>
> It was indicated that one possible way forward could be to simply
> document, in an informal delivery, how different vendors do things in the
> network, but in such case the vendors should also be listed in the document.
>
[MB] I'm recalling discussion of several options here:
1)  Publish as an informational WG deliverable with appropriate
caveats/warnings/disclaimers (the doc is currently Standards track)
2)  Publish as AD sponsored/information with appropriate
caveats/warnings/disclaimers
3)  Publish via the Independent Series Editor.  This is where the idea of
identifying specific vendors came up. This has been done a number of times
for a variety of vendors for a variety of unpopular topics.  [The
responsible AD likely will vehemently oppose this idea, but it is a totally
valid and practical route for things of this nature. ]
[/MB]


>
> Before the draft is adopted as a WG item, further discussions need to take
> place. The ADs will help with finding the correct people (security, IESG,
> etc) to involve in such discussions. The chair indicated that the draft
> implements a charter delivery, but that one possible outcome will be to
> remove/re-scope the charter delivery.
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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