[TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT
Muhammad Usama Sardar <muhammad_usama.sardar@tu-dresden.de> Mon, 27 April 2026 10:24 UTC
Return-Path: <muhammad_usama.sardar@tu-dresden.de>
X-Original-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75ACAE3D5038 for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 27 Apr 2026 03:24:11 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1777285451; bh=jesu5P3tV+VMiXrV4L3xoCTAwUU8rmcRza8pJA5wcQo=; h=Date:Subject:To:CC:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=o5UU93otULXkzr0hvW+Ilx3pCdkVXrKzzh02c+WDgBW8XGxKAZPINKY9pPE43QkWc afMIdui+Pd8wBRYw8OniJMha3iibNTmzfdP9KoZdb1OswHLMCPibc5+dgBdqHKxoEe p8Hbp2ItjJoXv4DQNf9PDCXY0aC0x3LITG0aczH8=
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.398
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=tu-dresden.de
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5BTskbbWUJvV for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 27 Apr 2026 03:24:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailout3.zih.tu-dresden.de (mailout3.zih.tu-dresden.de [141.30.67.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 864A9E3D4EE2 for <tls@ietf.org>; Mon, 27 Apr 2026 03:23:57 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tu-dresden.de; s=dkim2022; h=Content-Type:In-Reply-To:From:References:CC:To :Subject:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=B79AJqJ3vM8DfKOVrmVHqj1lXxAtWCkH8IIZJMoHd80=; b=vqLpf07cYrOIQWEn1CmCXcvr9b lBV2yxsiqg50smW80MIZS1wdXjaEK8wA2OW6cvW0yNhc9u+wulDY3g2gZcUIblcKbxDsaMESG4Ep5 QOBqH/AGbGDbrLIhS6ssfCYGxa19iBZ5POGyDXjKQ6+6et36nA8OwdGqJ/oHBIHzpTBDyP6vwu7sq LtFRNXPPs9ns12u+R9OjmPvWgc8jp0s6BXs65hhzQR33qYyYaXWPvGal0NcCikAEJGWk+bK9Q9JLy Uh/P4zuMG3284YjTV+BayQzek1NbIRwQe4j7Q9MeSmtesL/MH31amvV4eXpyeNMiYyoyFcVHeLJxe uotMejmg==;
Received: from msx-t422.msx.ad.zih.tu-dresden.de ([172.26.35.139] helo=msx.tu-dresden.de) by mailout3.zih.tu-dresden.de with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from <muhammad_usama.sardar@tu-dresden.de>) id 1wHJ87-00BuB1-1V; Mon, 27 Apr 2026 12:23:56 +0200
Received: from [10.12.5.228] (141.76.13.149) by msx-t422.msx.ad.zih.tu-dresden.de (172.26.35.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.2562.37; Mon, 27 Apr 2026 12:23:53 +0200
Message-ID: <f878a04f-f30f-4dfe-a113-a84f198ebf27@tu-dresden.de>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 12:23:52 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
To: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
References: <143FA1BF-280A-4469-ADE0-7CAE3867DB88@sn3rd.com> <9759b289-15aa-4cae-a306-258873b90f07@tu-dresden.de> <80CE4119-79F9-40B2-82FF-2D6E2BFE967C@sn3rd.com> <b3d2495c-ca82-420c-9bb8-8f5766f1c94a@tu-dresden.de> <CABcZeBOnzwNnu=joUfzfD30T3PbTwbDJE_+70g8+mpJ1ZON6Aw@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6SwVa+RK4sNTTCkBL+tKTohtzvSVkf7W9HJ3jbrJXDTdKQ@mail.gmail.com> <4ffb0756-1cfe-41a6-8f26-c0fb4daecaed@tu-dresden.de> <CAChr6SwmyLX6UJiq5bdoveDEVEsvY6r9Kzf5Zp3iXr6MhPRLyw@mail.gmail.com> <b6fc4367-0015-4538-aa6d-5a3816eb1c41@tu-dresden.de> <CAChr6SxJHG=iyNKsy47uimbqg-L1b9yZUy0JYHp=Dx6hy0-Mcg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Language: en-US
From: Muhammad Usama Sardar <muhammad_usama.sardar@tu-dresden.de>
In-Reply-To: <CAChr6SxJHG=iyNKsy47uimbqg-L1b9yZUy0JYHp=Dx6hy0-Mcg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg="sha-512"; boundary="------------ms090104010305080504060706"
X-ClientProxiedBy: MSX-L415.msx.ad.zih.tu-dresden.de (172.26.34.135) To msx-t422.msx.ad.zih.tu-dresden.de (172.26.35.139)
X-TUD-Virus-Scanned: mailout3.zih.tu-dresden.de
Message-ID-Hash: HIWLQ5BKORFX3BGLZMTHZJBXNLNHK7ZL
X-Message-ID-Hash: HIWLQ5BKORFX3BGLZMTHZJBXNLNHK7ZL
X-MailFrom: muhammad_usama.sardar@tu-dresden.de
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tls.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: TLS List <tls@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/YuIkC3FzVVOes3-Y0C3k0pZGEpI>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tls-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tls-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tls-leave@ietf.org>
Hi Rob, Thank you for explaining your perspective explicitly. That was indeed very helpful. In short, I completely agree with you but I also want to ensure some meaningful progress. So I am moving step by step. We could make it completely open at some point in the future. I will add your proposal as an alternative for consideration by FATT and WG in the next version of the draft. You are welcome to propose a PR here [0]. Thank you. Some thoughts inline: On 27.04.26 03:34, Rob Sayre wrote: > Well, I don't think the FATT needs to allow interjections by TLS WG > members. From: > > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-usama-tls-fatt-extension-06.html#section-4.1.2 > > I disagree with one of the design goals: "Keep intra-FATT > communication private as it is." I absolutely share your opinion. In fact, I would love to have that public too. As a related historical note, I indeed opposed the idea of private FATT communication a couple of years ago when the process was being made. So the only purpose of having this design goal here is to move step by step and get something done, rather than proposing an abrupt process change which might not be acceptable. > It is not something I would raise an objection over, and it is > definitely allowed by RFC 2418. But if the intra-FATT communication > were public, but read-only, I think that would solve a lot of the > communication issues. Again, I fully agree with you and would very much love to see your proposal implemented but as I understood back then, the primary concern was to preserve anonymity of FATT, even though the set is itself very small. My idea of /hybrid/ design team is just a middle ground that hopefully works for everyone. Best regards, -Usama [0] https://github.com/muhammad-usama-sardar/tls-fatt-extension
- [TLS] FATT Process Updates Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: FATT process for … Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: FATT process for … Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: FATT process for … Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: FATT process for … Bas Westerbaan
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: FATT process for … Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: FATT process for … David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: FATT process for … Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Sean Turner
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Filippo Valsorda
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT David Benjamin
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Eric Rescorla
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Felix Linker
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Nadim Kobeissi
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Salz, Rich
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT S Moonesamy
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT S Moonesamy
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT S Moonesamy
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT S Moonesamy
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Rob Sayre
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT S Moonesamy
- [TLS] Re: FATT Process Updates: Contacting FATT Muhammad Usama Sardar