Re: [tsvwg] FQ & VPNs

Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> Sun, 21 February 2021 23:41 UTC

Return-Path: <chromatix99@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8B4D3A132C for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 15:41:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.848
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3oJ0sA63pf9s for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 15:41:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-lj1-x22c.google.com (mail-lj1-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 708EC3A132A for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 15:41:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-lj1-x22c.google.com with SMTP id c8so52973883ljd.12 for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 15:41:48 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=jonF3KhKgEm57vyoiHErD+G6y7esimzNlcA7TSPXBuA=; b=nMiVmQsVQBuDfPeBADen57lwc2OzYC+qfdITPyx3R0/RV9S6W8XfDksStb8wXxGeyF Lbso70vt6Jcq6DKW/Y8Z2fsoM8gWK99P5+OnOv9Vrv5m+A63Dzzj+7sUw1I2uIyLZ/Ec Y5w5xUPwLwR0vZwluHDTim48fCwk/jIbAu8y0UC9qmpOU/U7fJ9Csu/8meqoEVxfM9Fs tLrHSvwAW335+nxpMmokuT6MUdGyh7shu27IAURzV4Lz3VZXCM+g0y3R530vKqsWvVx3 dKLoYTjqnADXoPL2DnL0zd+443di9CxFLk0AiLK6OBEIKF5Y6vMn6XhwGfphybD0/gKw mIAw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=jonF3KhKgEm57vyoiHErD+G6y7esimzNlcA7TSPXBuA=; b=RNbAdXENBp3xzA+lMVKsdvpW+yvFJo5dSLBklFvzO0NrPRjWkXhrK1W+59zOxqncfJ 6X4iuVrgy9UhGNTFpKDNb0Ch/+awy0QFDqmBNwu+5mImt2NE+uKOEEUjNfMcV2XovnOu vw4DZgmp+pt3r7UEK3bj36I6uSv8fMMPwo6n1ZMoa44WYfRsvhl2rnEfsPVXswMJrMTx AInCFLo9Q4bopgAwBhZB33xb4J6fSK2ievx3nI/OvFTXjTfASVROjTRxBb+eTBBsW1IE cvm9IOhz18x27BRQgp/SMkOZ7JRdN98DJT8Wg7oyeot4qAGA1Ub1GfyPHF0tBe5Ggzfp +s6A==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ERvHGt3rIUN+tTBQm6fD3o/B/YHcVXWaEPuDMFU6CRB19u7pc 1o/Su6EsLgTVN8mcbdZZxsiuY6NzxNY=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzREQjP024ACNJ0dcfraBD3+Z2c6nREJhrijnLGsw2GuSlRfYZd1v0zOJjPY4UijLJou61WgQ==
X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4217:: with SMTP id y23mr11415051lfh.368.1613950906604; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 15:41:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (176-93-29-60.bb.dnainternet.fi. [176.93.29.60]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q2sm1706784lfd.19.2021.02.21.15.41.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 21 Feb 2021 15:41:46 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.7\))
From: Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <5ffcaeb0-5e17-3e60-6bf0-e046dcf1d798@tomh.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 01:41:44 +0200
Cc: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>, TSVWG <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <80699430-1649-405F-9D8B-5FD3E00CC6BD@gmail.com>
References: <161366419040.16138.17111583810851995947@ietfa.amsl.com> <BF0810D9-E742-4FCB-90B1-6957551B585D@heistp.net> <b222bbdf-70ae-3e5b-b122-1160299fb4e2@bobbriscoe.net> <E7CC88FA-F064-4B72-BAA9-8BE40F7AF040@gmail.com> <52cb434a-bd91-6260-7be9-85bdbd07b625@bobbriscoe.net> <BCAB7068-A10A-4FC4-9719-E300F644262C@gmail.com> <43f43fa2-69c4-bc10-3ffb-e95e41809335@bobbriscoe.net> <4835a3cd-4d88-68ac-d172-1e21bc42a150@bobbriscoe.net> <CAA93jw7_yvkqU-uxHkbHkO2g_RFmzCmJcxQhMJcBQjo=+QMh=w@mail.gmail.com> <HE1PR0701MB2299CF42CA83576C86070BB0C2839@HE1PR0701MB2299.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <13EBAF97-A9AF-47A1-AB71-546C31F762C2@gmail.com> <HE1PR0701MB22999A319816198B515234BEC2829@HE1PR0701MB2299.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CAA93jw6GNbgOSDfWo2mQPWSS5GQdTNqtq=fBgspP=MNkyPNtfA@mail.gmail.com> <eef468c8-1152-f6e8-cfbf-c80cb2d465a0@tomh.org> <94BF48C8-733B-42AC-ABC1-246692E2E0A1@gmail.com> <00c450ca-ab87-0904-2a6a-1d53a6d68964@tomh.org> <8567715D-8C4A-4649-B77E-310BE7D4C0E9@gmx.de> <5ffcaeb0-5e17-3e60-6bf0-e046dcf1d798@tomh.org>
To: Tom Henderson <tomh@tomh.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.7)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/_5dPUrS1WlJ7Sr1cxx9Qe4i6lb8>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] FQ & VPNs
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsvwg/>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 23:41:50 -0000

> On 22 Feb, 2021, at 1:36 am, Tom Henderson <tomh@tomh.org> wrote:
> 
> I was hoping to propose a way forward for the backward compatibility concerns by decoupling these steps, but if it is not agreeable, I guess the deadlock remains.

Hypothetically, if the L4S RFC were indeed published, and included a requirement that any non-L4S AQMs treat ECT(1) as Not-ECT, then that would begin the process you described.  But it does not change the timeline wherein the network must be thoroughly prepared before L4S endpoints can be deployed.

 - Jonathan Morton