Re: [v6ops] About Req for Comments - "Transition to IPv6"

[Alexandre Petrescu <[e-mail]>]

Le 16/03/2020 à 20:42, Owen DeLong a écrit :
>
>
>> On Mar 16, 2020, at 04:03 , Alexandre Petrescu 
>> <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Le 16/03/2020 à 08:05, Owen DeLong a écrit :
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 15, 2020, at 16:32 , Matthew Petach <[e-mail] 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 11:54 AM Owen DeLong <[e-mail] 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     > On Mar 5, 2020, at 8:51 AM, Alexandre Petrescu
>>>>     <[e-mail]
>>>>     <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>>     > Is facebook a network?  I thought of it like a server farm.
>>>>
>>>>     How does one run a distributed server farm throughout the world
>>>>     without connecting it with a network? Am I missing something?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe for a very long time, that would have accurately 
>>>> described Akamai.
>>>
>>> Akamai didn’t run a backbone. I’d argue that they did run many 
>>> rather sizable networks.
>>>
>>>> Until their announcement, long after they had established 
>>>> themselves in the marketplace, that they were going to deploy a 
>>>> network: 
>>>> https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1532/20171003_Kaufmann_Lightning_Talk_Akamai_v1.pdf
>>>
>>> Oh, I’m very familiar with that particular project… It was in it’s 
>>> startup hey day during my tenure in Mr. Kaufmann’s group. That was 
>>> Akamai building a backbone to connect many (not nearly all) of their 
>>> networks together.
>>>
>>> I stand by my original statement. One cannot (usefully) run a server 
>>> farm without a network. Network != backbone.
>>
>>
>> I agree a server farm needs a network.  But that network might be a 
>> switched Ethernet with VLANs in a large building, or it might be made 
>> of long haul links (ATM, FDDI, multi-Gigabit Ethernet fiber).
>>
>> In the first case (call it VLAN) it is highly possible that VLAN in a 
>> building, or a set of close by buildings, are IPv6 only, and no IPv4.
>>
>
> This is just silly… For the server farm to be useful, that “VLAN” 
> still needs a larger network in front of it that eventually makes 
> contact (ideally in multiple diverse ways) with a larger internet.
>>
>> But if the facebook system is a geographically distributed server 
>> farm with a large network, it might be that at some point the data is 
>> carried on IPv4 even though it is IPv6 over IPv4.
>>
> In talking to Facebook’s engineers, they claim to do v4<->6 
> translation at the edge where necessary to talk to IPv4-only clients 
> and are IPv6-only throughout their datacenters and other networks.


that v4<->v6 means facebook network is not IPv6-only

Alex

>
> I have no reason to doubt the veracity of their claims and indeed 
> everything I have seen leads me to believe that they would be jumping 
> for joy if they could shut down those remaining systems supporting IPv4.
>>
>> From an end user perspective it is hard to find out on what is 
>> transported her data: IPv4, VLAN, gigabit Ethernet, whatever.  
>> Because traceroute does not show this (some times one can see 
>> somethings about ipv4 or ipv6 acronyms in the name of the hosts, but 
>> rarely).
>>
> While this is a valid and true statement, I’m not sure how it is 
> relevant to this discussion.
>>
>> But the builders of these networks do know whether or not that is 
>> carried in IPv4, or in MPLS, or so.  It is them that could say what 
>> is there, underlying.
>>
> Which is why I base my statements on discussions with them. Were you 
> assuming I was looking at this from my own perspective as an end-user 
> of facebook?
>
> Owen
>