Re: [v6ops] Google Alert - IPv6

["t.petch" <[e-mail]>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Andrews" <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 7:32 AM

>  JORDI PALET MARTINEZ writes:
> > Totally agree, however there is a subtle situation here, when we
> > associate this to the origin of the thread  CGN
> >
> > If an unlawful action has been done with that phone, the phone owner
will
> > be responsible in front of the law to identify the person who has go
the
> > phone. Otherwise, the courts will judge you as the author of the
unlawful
> > action.
>
> Please cite the relevent law.  Phone are hacked all the time.  Phones
> are shared all the time.  There is only ever a strong correlation
> never absolute proof.  For proof you need other data.
>
> > Same as if you are the owner of a car that has an accident and dont
stop,
> > unless you identify in and undoubtable way a third person driving
the
> > car, it will be your problem.
>
> Cars get stolen all the time and sometimes the first you know about
> is a knock on the door.  The owner of the vehicle is just the first
> step in the investigation.  Things like a speeding fine may get
> lumbered on you but failure to stop requires more that you are the
> owner of the vechicle to be proven.

Mark

UK law changed some years ago and introduced, or reinforced, the concept
of a Registered Keeper of a vehicle and, in some cases, they are legally
responsible, e.g. to say who was driving at the time an offence was
committed; if they do not oblige, then they are liable, and can and do
get convicted in a court of law.  It means that change of ownership must
be registered promptly which has led to a number of court cases.  As I
recall, this change in the law came about because too many people were
saying 'I cannot remember' and so prosecutions were failing.

The popular press is for ever referring to an IP address as
'identifying' who was doing what; while we may know better, most people,
doubtless some law enforcement agencies, do not.  As the use of the
Internet for crime grows, and people's losses mount, so I see this wish
to identify who did what when via an IP address growing ever stronger so
I think we will see changes to the law to identify who 'owns' an address
and who is then obliged to reveal data about its use at a given time.

On the other hand, prosections for criminal negligence against companies
fail, or are not even brought, because UK law has required individuals
to be identified as responsible, not the company, per se, as a legal
entity.  This has been the case for decades and this issue often
surfaces after a significant tragedy but the appetite for change seems
limited, so perhaps identifying people by IP address will go the same
way.

Either way, I think we need to keep abreast of developments in our
varous jurisdictions.

Tom Petch

> > So, and this is what I was trying to point to the EU article 29
working
> > party many years ago, even if you identify an IP address, it is
almost
> > impossible to say this is personal data, you need to correlate that
with
> > many many many other data, and even do, unless you have a live
record of
> > he/she being in front of the keyboard at that specific time.
> >
> > However, the implications of CGN for the police is that, without a
CGN,
> > the owner for the phone that done that unlawful act (in EU you need
to
> > provide a legal ID to have a phone line) using that IP address, the
> > identification is direct, no further investigation is needed and is
the
> > owner the responsible to identify a third party if that's the case.
With
> > CGN, if the IP address is shared and there are no source ports
records,
> > the investigation brings the police to a number of people, may be
only
> > 16, may be hundreds, which is a big issue.
>
> Only if you are looking at single events.  Multiple events will
> probably whittle the set down to a subscriber.  That doesn't
> necessarially identify a individual.
>
> > Regards,
> > Jordi
>
>
> --
> Mark Andrews, ISC
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> PHONE: [phone]                 INTERNET: [e-mail]
>
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