Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment report" - not to be an ietf-v6ops I.D.
Wojciech Dec <wdec.ietf@gmail.com> Mon, 20 February 2012 16:45 UTC
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Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:45:25 +0100
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From: Wojciech Dec <wdec.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Cameron Byrne <cb.list6@gmail.com>
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Cc: Russell Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, v6ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment report" - not to be an ietf-v6ops I.D.
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On 20 February 2012 16:45, Cameron Byrne <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:05 AM, Rémi Després <despres.remi@laposte.net> > wrote: > > Hi Brian, > > > > Le 2012-02-19 à 20:23, Brian E Carpenter a écrit : > > > >> On 2012-02-20 05:37, Joel jaeggli wrote: > >>> So, when I read 464xlat what I see is a stack of existing RFCs used in > >>> a specific fashion which the draft describes. I don't see any new > >>> standards work. > >> > >> fwiw I agree with that. I think v6ops is the appropriate venue > >> for descriptions of how to knit existing protocol specs together > >> in operational scenarios. > >> > >> I do object slightly to the way draft-ietf-v6ops-464xlat uses > >> the word "architecture". It's an operational scenario, not an > >> architecture, IMHO. > > > > The draft says "No new protocol required", but: > > > > 1. > > Section 7.5 says: > > "In the best case, the CLAT will have a dedicated /64 via DHCPv6 or > other means to source and receive IPv6 packets associated with the > [RFC6145] stateless translation of IPv4 packets to the local clients." > > How this is provided via DHCPv6 has AFAIK to be specified. > > > > If i may clarify, DHCPv6 PD may provide the CPE with many /64. The > CPE may choose any /64 that it is delegated for this purpose. Nothing > new here. No special DHCP parameters. > > > Note that RFC5969 says "6rd specifies a protocol mechanism" although it > is also using just a stack of previously available protocols, with new > parameters obtained in DHCP. > > > > 2. > > The same section says: > > "In cases where the access network does not allow for a dedicated > translation prefix, the CLAT SHOULD take ownership of the lowest /96 from > an attached interface's /64 to source and receive translation traffic. > Establishing ownership of the /96 requires that the CLAT SHOULD perform NDP > so that no other nodes on the /64 may use the lowest /96." > > > > This is AFAIK a new specification, which requires specific code. > > If not, I am interested in learning why. > > > > I can tell you have seen this behavior before on a NAT-PT platform. > But, also nothing new IMHO. The /96 is logically owned by the CPE as > a virtual address. Thus, the CPE does NDP to avoid collisions. > As far as I can tell, there is no specification except the xlat464 draft which (attempts to) define that a device with /64, or a PD, prefix should derive a /96 from it and use the lower 32 bits for stateless mapping an(y) received arbitrary source IPv4 addresses. Yes there is clear use of existing stateless NAT64 here, applied in a very specific way; the proof point being that any regular NAT64 capable device that one would put on a network would, afaik, not accomplish all of the above "auto magically" when connecting to the network. -Woj. > > > 3. > > Section 7.6 says: > > "In the 464XLAT environment, the PLAT and CLAT SHOULD include an IPv6 > Fragment Header, since IPv4 host does not set the DF bit." > > AFAIK, this isn't in existing RFCs. > > > > Fragment header treatment is discussed here > http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6145#section-4 > > Does this answer your question? > > > Section 7.7 says: > > "The CLAT SHOULD set itself as the DNS server via DHCP or other means > and proxy DNS queries for IPv4 and IPv6 clients" > > I find the "other means" confusing here (a new protocol?). > > We are trying to keep the architecture open for new standards track > work that may come some day. > > > "The CLAT SHOULD allow for a client to query any DNS server of its > choice and bypass the proxy." > > What the CLAT has to do for this isn't specified. (Also whether this > DNS has to synthesize A records or not isn't specified.) > > > > We don't mention synthesized because it is not required. > > The CLAT just has to do the defined CLAT functions including RFC6145 > > CB > > > > To me this shows that, Devil being in details, this draft isn't just an > operational scenario with existing RFC specifications. > > > > Yet, as I said, there is in this draft a very valuable idea, worth > treating rigorously. > > > > Kind regards, > > RD > > > > > > > > > >> > >> Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > v6ops mailing list > > v6ops@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >
- [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment rep… Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Joel jaeggli
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Satoru Matsushima
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… tsavo.stds@gmail.com
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Wojciech Dec
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Wojciech Dec
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Joel jaeggli
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Satoru Matsushima
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Satoru Matsushima
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Satoru Matsushima
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Rémi Després
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Washam Fan
- Re: [v6ops] draft-464XLAT not a "trial deployment… Cameron Byrne