Re: Turning off Etherpad

[Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]>]

Thanks Robert. I think i understand some of the policy rasons,
as we discussed in the thread. We also ran into similar problems
with old mailin lists in discussion on the internet-history mailing
list.

I will stick to my suggestion for the successor system going forward:

  -> have a button to create a freezed copy of a page unde a new URL.
  -> with the option "public searchable: [Y/N]

The public searchable frozen cpy URL would be what would be archived
publically!

Cheers
    Toerless

On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 01:31:05PM -0500, Robert Sparks wrote:
> Toerless -
> 
> The tools team discussed the suggestions to try to archive what was in
> etherpad, and, with input from the leadership, decided not to do so. You'll
> see from the other notes that I just sent what should happen with any
> content that people feel should be preserved.
> 
> We are looking at ways to signal strongly to new users of notes.ietf.org
> that the content is not archival.
> 
> RjS
> 
> On 8/11/21 11:11 AM, Toerless Eckert wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 11:27:41AM +1000, Mark Nottingham wrote:
> > > My understanding was always that etherpad was a best-effort, ephemeral service; i.e., there was no guarantee (implicit or explicit) of stability or availability. That's probably the right policy, given that there able to be edited by *anyone on the Internet*.
> > Yes. But my comments where not about the intent of etherpad,
> > but if/what we would want to do now to preserve history, even
> > if that was not a desire when we started using it.
> > 
> > The main question IMHO is whether we could publish the whole content
> > of etherpad or not. I would like to see that question answered. If
> > the answer is yes, then we can discuss if and/or how to do that.
> > 
> > If the answer is no, then i guss a tar file could still go into the
> > IETF vault, and later generations could figure out if/who might
> > be able to take a look at it.
> > 
> > > We might consider a somewhat more formal and explicit policy on service stability and availability (on a service-by-service basis), so that folks aren't surprised by this in the future. E.g., the W3C has:
> > >    https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Persistence
> > Right. My suggestion for codimd was exactly around that IMHO:
> > 
> > - declare CodiMD content to be public.
> > - automatically make older CodiMD content read-only
> > 
> > The conflict between this goal and the design of etherpad/codiMD is that
> > boh seem to be based on confidentiality by obscurity, e.g.: no
> > public search and/or list of pages...
> > 
> > Cheers
> >      Toerless
> > 
> > > Cheers,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > On 11 Aug 2021, at 11:24 am, Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > So, what is he plan for archiving etherpad.ietf.org ?
> > > > Can/will the be made read-only/no new data ?
> > > > 
> > > > Or is all that content that may still have URLs in emails and other places
> > > > pointing to it deemed to be lost except for the subset of pages that
> > > > where converted into IETF meeting minuts by WG chairs ?
> > > > 
> > > > If all this content is meant to be lost because it is too difficult to
> > > > change to read-only, is this the same strategy for codimd ? Aka:
> > > > if you do not save it, it will be lost at some point in time ?
> > > > 
> > > > If converting to read-only is too difficult, maybe the whole tree
> > > > can just be put up for download as a tar file for any future researchers...
> > > > However, i am not sure if all the content is meant to be public, or if
> > > > we did assume some degree of possible confidentiality because of non-searchable
> > > > namespace.
> > > > 
> > > > Btw: I think it would be great if codimd would solve these issues:
> > > > You can only create new names under whatever.ietf.org/2021/<your-string-here>
> > > > and after 2 years the whole years directory tree turns read-only with
> > > > indexing/search...
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers
> > > >     Toeless
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 06:05:34PM -0700, Fred Baker wrote:
> > > > > People use it in recording our minutes. Losing it would be unfortunate.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > On Aug 10, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Robert Sparks <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Chairs -
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > We are making plans to turn down etherpad.ietf.org in a few weeks. Let me know of any concerns or need for delay.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > RjS
> > > > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > ---
> > > > [e-mail]
> > > > 
> > > --
> > > Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/

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