Re: [Add] My single use case

Daniel Migault <mglt.ietf@gmail.com> Mon, 14 September 2020 16:12 UTC

Return-Path: <mglt.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 455493A0A1C for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:12:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7zbtfZo6eDm7 for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:12:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-vs1-xe2d.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 891F83A09E9 for <add@ietf.org>; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:12:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-vs1-xe2d.google.com with SMTP id b123so175666vsd.10 for <add@ietf.org>; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:12:07 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ryyH+88Q4SHIzoqmGixpBjuxWOthjrtzm4EC6lOHmyU=; b=poU1gAIA4PbhOnwkiIuzy70XAUJj/AXOwux5W8FJ2wwn8LZ+IUyVcAKX50fYVusVIK 0XeO/rP7Yz3FU+sORgxhgGr/8if2ibdk7KfN0BEButRoP5H2Z5Ex1mzeq3vJoOgSy2BX nDN3EW8ILgGyuEzpGH34C4f8A8++kpm+VUBQp8d2fUmCNE+CZ4VOCM9BtWT1z1ZT7RSN SJV/HMkf9CYXEA6uxgjgYYSUcWVvozI8I9vizfVm3zFpShFOcBvBTQUPvM/BHGeFtnOB EtBKy/bG6Y1ADYG9XeqLnzOLhir1K+mykFJCBWOR6gGVY6flnX7xFYpBdBKqacst4kvm fBCw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ryyH+88Q4SHIzoqmGixpBjuxWOthjrtzm4EC6lOHmyU=; b=XDZHHaOUWU1YL7pZU1rWND2Q08AJZXieQ7RJCl1w1Lfv4lnd8lAg56IFxoB9zYPfuy 8N19MNj/sV1UoYab5cAmp51YvEh7UeZkruYbWVva9inmC7QXPpAG3qjzCyky8IqO4uB3 OBoTZjyfjv4bhrxMl9UrqKd2BwtrdZOV2WbqTieHGuHg8kyi0A8CA6anMYDShkXlsJjb RuLyVQxX5zWXMCGcHfrojglnmaHNn9qGamwUNvVN6TT9/lbjYonCmEzC0CaNGxugJvMV dVNgRKVDaxTZBoew/H47A19hdXe+cmI8KJI2WBxRaLKI0fIGuqBqZf/gjmcWG7gZjqsQ vyQw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533skXx8k1IkKQl+RWRxzUkjjVgEVelwkXqKAzGbAb0udVuEiQ6S lrYsoHg2evdBEeVZjV3A9Z+4e/eeKiSPLE1sgmbypmL7
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx37c5RrgejF2Af5ctiePrkFpAUaDzttREcul3D4Ew9qIHdauN00O2uXhC5pS8GCsAC1Qa2xBTSbUwIl65gNTc=
X-Received: by 2002:a67:6444:: with SMTP id y65mr8540568vsb.79.1600099926638; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:12:06 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <d4bd287a-d2ce-40cd-b635-4f74efbc77f6@www.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <d4bd287a-d2ce-40cd-b635-4f74efbc77f6@www.fastmail.com>
From: Daniel Migault <mglt.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 12:11:55 -0400
Message-ID: <CADZyTknjg+47Rk1+a4B2DZT_0NSX=0vaAu7NBuxprr=EkX83ew@mail.gmail.com>
To: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
Cc: ADD Mailing list <add@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bb83a105af484bce"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/add/fiUR3VgJgG1azvl84makQ5xs1bw>
Subject: Re: [Add] My single use case
X-BeenThere: add@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Applications Doing DNS <add.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/add/>
List-Post: <mailto:add@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:12:14 -0000

Hi Martin,

Discovering and selecting are from my point of view, separate processes,
and learning that one resolver performs qname should be learnt during the
discovery, while the decision should be part of the selection process.

Yours,
Daniel

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 11:08 AM Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> wrote:

> My preference is to tackle just this:
>
> As a new device or application, when I join a network that I have no prior
> relationship with or configuration for, I want to discover the DoT or DoH
> resolver that corresponds to the Do53 resolver offered by that network.
>
> This might need the full matrix of DoT/DoH, v4/v6, with/without a
> forwarder, but this is fundamentally just a single use case.
>
> Specifically, I want to NOT learn about whether the resolver does qname
> minimization or DoT to the authoritative or whether it does the eDNS client
> subnet or different policies with respect to what is answered or anything
> else that might make a decision to use this alternative complicated.
> Existing methods don't provide this information.  I don't want a protocol
> that does anything fancy because that makes the decision complex.
>
<mglt>
The discovery as far as I understand it is expected to be followed by a
selection process which could result in using multiple resolvers. So, it
may be possible information related to a resolver is being discovered
during the discovery. That these parameters should not influence the
discovery process is one thing, that these parameters should not be
discovered is another thing. The text seems to say the second. If you
happen to know that the resolver does qname or not will be considered by
the selection process not the discovery but one may learn it during the
discovery - at least in my opinion.
</mglt>

>
> --
> Add mailing list
> Add@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/add
>


-- 
Daniel Migault
Ericsson