IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [antitrust-policy] New Version Notification for draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-06.txt

Stephan Wenger <stewe@stewe.org> Wed, 26 July 2023 22:04 UTC

Return-Path: <stewe@stewe.org>
X-Original-To: antitrust-policy@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: antitrust-policy@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 169D5C14CE5F; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 15:04:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.908
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.908 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=steweorg.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SWMchhiOA7Zr; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 15:04:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from NAM04-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam04on2113.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.100.113]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84B29C14F747; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 15:04:33 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=C4+CnrpAcvDc2tj4+KHazPzDh33jyEKN1vnrJTVsTps1sdnBvr6ngbW6QngwA407MX9ERUp1t2b4u3iAgEX8M/7EYUcrexJk9zZgrD4e8oGvFrmPPIbnDQ1iDrN6BTwnMy3VLMBY2UliXYIuasYNMHEcIsIpgtXjHKh5Vqcoh03qHoNwwtvPN6wcoIc/Q6PTLKr76JfQ+GJ+ROQTQ6cSMR+SL6yy+M/3lUmlHnyCd3haDYrnlLTew5qAbbRHYexaRml9yz4mb3PZdK4b26wTjwUMWym/lDGJs5pPTTcrQylNLCxlUwFwytSAlj5rKfqjo4F5yc1/UYeghi/dzZwzdw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=IQCrj7Yd943wPNQUZzKuxDHVsotERm8W93OsrO7Ll7o=; b=ATdbXwoA/C1rE3KaC5Fqpfju+U+WfrEa22geagLD5yhkwE1yYCXh0/+MKKGWtC4eSh6NpvGYYK2unSknKqy5Fh0BYEsSVoYMbv4OLUe2+G/ZSpx9ydyFQQWBK2UIc2e1jLKZX7PMAnLyhPa1NwQccWaq8I25xLVYWBNkRSrc/04MlkxauOSWM19A6PMup749Z9PACgx62QT+iQ/lg0Ah7OgvnQKhRWM2eZtfEShcR4hrmZm/RxTH4fBowSoYGYRXg0rw1xbdcXaeHh3hODxfqXVp0mzCDpuzOHX0R17T7mBXmlygf8tqnDKu0LSRvAxsDzhOp5dI+L5h+4tSSKmdMQ==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=stewe.org; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=stewe.org; dkim=pass header.d=stewe.org; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=steweorg.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-steweorg-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=IQCrj7Yd943wPNQUZzKuxDHVsotERm8W93OsrO7Ll7o=; b=laREjalq1TYHsgxJ6Psfu99VFXI0FJhjwUIyw8HDJ0YPfa3JO5dOaRADR9Bdrv6bLdv/f6+BOPmBrfVTmtzgl814T7A0rRp44FjNh928SiRrcPq+sIBsnFW6qNUAzNKy20mNCkHglIztxTvnNwmg0V6OjSua2zxvMLiICEeJIEk=
Received: from PH0PR17MB4908.namprd17.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:510:d6::23) by DM6PR17MB4214.namprd17.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:2b1::11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6631.29; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 22:04:29 +0000
Received: from PH0PR17MB4908.namprd17.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b404:6545:1166:ec0e]) by PH0PR17MB4908.namprd17.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b404:6545:1166:ec0e%5]) with mapi id 15.20.6631.026; Wed, 26 Jul 2023 22:04:29 +0000
From: Stephan Wenger <stewe@stewe.org>
To: Jorge Contreras <cntreras@gmail.com>, Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
CC: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Jay Daley <exec-director@ietf.org>, "antitrust-policy@ietf.org" <antitrust-policy@ietf.org>, Brad Biddle <brad@biddle.law>
Thread-Topic: [antitrust-policy] New Version Notification for draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-06.txt
Thread-Index: AQHZv8b2Px9Xq66B7EWTFDS11pk/mq/MepqAgAARdwCAAAiTgIAABG+AgAAAwWI=
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 22:04:28 +0000
Message-ID: <PH0PR17MB4908C0FE7A97BD33C0D8FA7BAE00A@PH0PR17MB4908.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
References: <168901026560.7883.14919362245027450565@ietfa.amsl.com> <2AE74757-7A99-49EC-8CCF-615CCAB21B6C@ietf.org> <773FB56E-910A-4A74-975B-4D6D97837C23@cooperw.in> <49AF030C-5A32-4C82-91AA-E65F6FA853CA@ietf.org> <8DBD9C3E-2135-4D67-A01E-B2843726391F@cooperw.in> <2f06c146-42f8-f534-d181-121f7007cd35@joelhalpern.com> <CAP0PwYYvS-XyVDezq6hpLXau6rFoFK=AOKhA=-2XLJFsF2gqow@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAP0PwYYvS-XyVDezq6hpLXau6rFoFK=AOKhA=-2XLJFsF2gqow@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=stewe.org;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: PH0PR17MB4908:EE_|DM6PR17MB4214:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f04e4122-ee53-4432-7170-08db8e244873
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:PH0PR17MB4908.namprd17.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230028)(396003)(346002)(39830400003)(136003)(366004)(376002)(451199021)(41300700001)(71200400001)(53546011)(38100700002)(478600001)(91956017)(9686003)(86362001)(122000001)(9326002)(4326008)(8676002)(8936002)(76116006)(186003)(316002)(66446008)(66476007)(66556008)(66946007)(33656002)(6506007)(64756008)(5660300002)(2906002)(110136005)(83380400001)(54906003)(52536014)(55016003)(38070700005)(7696005)(15650500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_PH0PR17MB4908C0FE7A97BD33C0D8FA7BAE00APH0PR17MB4908namp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: stewe.org
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: PH0PR17MB4908.namprd17.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f04e4122-ee53-4432-7170-08db8e244873
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Jul 2023 22:04:28.8104 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 865fc51c-5fae-4322-98ef-0121a85df0b6
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: w4zuthSt92XqctCzjnjMg7qc6VkYjEAaTm8oDIgzSbQJMOX7RQhpXpibnAn0pNp5
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR17MB4214
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/antitrust-policy/emUscT7kB2iFNmgo3mzjQfaUT0E>
Subject: Re: [antitrust-policy] New Version Notification for draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-06.txt
X-BeenThere: antitrust-policy@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discuss the need for an antitrust or competition policy for the IETF." <antitrust-policy.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/antitrust-policy>, <mailto:antitrust-policy-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/antitrust-policy/>
List-Post: <mailto:antitrust-policy@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:antitrust-policy-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/antitrust-policy>, <mailto:antitrust-policy-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 22:04:39 -0000

Hi Jorge,
Thanks for your guidance/non-advice.
One question inline.
Stephan

From: antitrust-policy <antitrust-policy-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Jorge Contreras <cntreras@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 14:59
To: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Cc: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Jay Daley <exec-director@ietf.org>, antitrust-policy@ietf.org <antitrust-policy@ietf.org>, Brad Biddle <brad@biddle.law>
Subject: Re: [antitrust-policy] New Version Notification for draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust-06.txt
Speaking as a member of the community and not a legal advisor to anyone on this thread,
[…]
FWIW, I'm also skeptical about the first bullet of 4.2.  Presumably the problem being addressed is using "detailed" market data, but there is no definition of "detailed".  It's clear, from 4.1, that companies sharing their internal market projections, cost and profit figures is illegal and should be prohibited.  But I suspect that's enough, and that the first bullet of 4.2 simply adds FUD that will be hard to interpret in practice.

What do you think about my suggestion to use “unpublished” market data?

[…]

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email