Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-priority-14
Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Thu, 21 June 2012 13:47 UTC
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From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>
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To: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20120521130747.0c219ab0@elandnews.com> <4FBDF199.2050300@isode.com> <4FC722A2.2050905@dcrocker.net> <4FC89931.5060201@isode.com> <4FC914DB.4000806@dcrocker.net> <4FCA6BFE.3050609@isode.com> <4FCD175D.30307@dcrocker.net> <01OGAJ8GBR2Q0006TF@mauve.mrochek.com> <F6882C013F7272CED4D345A9@PST.JCK.COM> <E503581B-E89A-4E09-B06C-CF18263F7376@g11.org.uk> <1E3DCEC5990AF898F1E3582D@PST.JCK.COM> <6828E9C8-3C2A-46C9-8BD1-1308000CD91B@g11.org.uk> <01OGKA8DLA0Y0006TF@mauve.mrochek.com>
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Cc: ken carlberg <carlberg@g11.org.uk>, iesg@ietf.org, apps-discuss@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-priority-14
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Hi Ned, Thank you for very constructive comments. On 11/06/2012 15:29, Ned Freed wrote: > This entire discussion has been growing increasingly abstract, and that's > rarely a good thing in standards work. > > Rather than continue in that direction, I decided to do something I should > have done a lot sooner: I implemented the draft. > > <disclaimer> > > The fact that I have implemented this draft in Oracle Messaging Server does not > imply any commitment on the part of Oracle to actually support this extension. > And should Oracle decide to support it, this doesn't mean it will be done > in any particular release or in any particular time frame. > > </disclaimer> > > (Sorry about having to include that, but rules are rules.) > > Implementation work is usually very instructive, and this time was no > exception. I'll list the simple things I learned first: > > (1) The draft says that the extension is valid for LMTP, but doesn't give any > guidance as to what that means. This could be interpreted as saying that > an implementation that uses LMTP has to support the MT-PRIORITY extension > there to be compliant. That would in turn mean that prioritization has > to be done on the LMTP server side, which may be a bit difficult as there's > no queue there. Our implementation, and I suspect many others, handles > prioritization on the LMTP client side. A very good point. Yes. > That said, it's entirely possible for the MT-PRIORITY to affect the LMTP > server by changing processing or I/O handling in some way, or affect > subsequent store access behavior, or may be needed just so it can be > logged. So the extension should be allowed over LMTP, but some clarifying > text is needed to say an implementation MAY choose to handle > prioritization on the client side of the LMTP connection only. I've added a new section on this in -19. > (2) The draft also allows MT-PRIORITY on submission, which of course makes > complete sense. However, given the overall state of MUAs in the world > today, it is next to certain that clients are going to be used that don't > support it. (And please don't try the line that this can always be dealt > with by requiring the use of certain clients. I'm talking about the real > world, not fantasyland.) As such, there are going to be cases where the > MSA needs to attach an MT-PRIORITY to messages that don't have one. This was always allowed. It is implied from the procedure of calculating the priority as specified by the sender (and using 0 if not specified), then changing it due to the local policy. Actually, I thought the current text was quite clear: <t>The SMTP server MAY also alter the message priority (to lower or to raise it) in order to enforce some other site policy. For example an MSA might have a mapping table that assigns priorities to messages based on authentication credentials. </t> I added "(Note that this also includes the case when the priority is not explicitly specified.)" after the first sentence quoted above. I will also added an extra example that demonstrates that. > It > would be good to mention this, but even if it's not discussed there needs > to be an enhanced status code defined to indicate when it has been done, > and more generally to indicate when the MT-PRIORITY has been upgraded. I changed the existing Enhanced Status Code for "the priority was lowered" to "the priority was changed". Pete asked for it earlier anyway, but I just didn't see much use case, so didn't do that. I don't think there is a need in 2 Enhanced Status Codes, because the selected priority is communicated back in the response anyway. > (3) Implementations that support Sieve need to provide a way for Sieves to > test the current MT-PRIORITY value. I implemented this as an environment > item because that's a place that allows for implementation-specific values. > The alternative would be to do it as a full-blown Sieve extension and add > it to the envelope test. Personally I have no preferences and I think either will work. Considering that you implemented the extended environment test, we might as well use that. > Given that MT-PRIORITY is an SMTP extension the > envelope test is the natural place to do it, but a problem with that may > be it restricts the test to implementations and situations where the > envelope test itself is supported. This is not a problem for our > implementation, but it may be a problem for others. > > Another issue is the lack of a defined comparator that will work with > MT-PRIORITY values. i;ascii-numeric doesn't handle signed comparisons. > An i;ascii-integer comparator is needed, so I added one and I think I'll > go ahead and add the definition to the comparator registry. > > It may also be a bad idea to add all this in the current draft, especially > given where this draft is in the process. But it needs to be done somewhere. I think doing this in a separate document would be best at this stage in the process. > (4) The draft doesn't say anything about logging. The current MT-PRIORITY > value does appear in Received: fields, but that's not the same thing. > Logging of how MT-PRIORITY is used is going to be a requirement in some > environments, so a general suggestion along the lines of "MT-PRIORITY > values SHOULD be logged as part of any logging of message transactions" is > in order. Agreed. Added in -19. > (5) The suggested text for the X.3.TBD3 error code doesn't conform to the > requirement that the text begin with the new priority value. (Note that > the new error code suggested under (2) should have the same requirement.) You mean where it is first defined? I copied the text from the IANA registration section to make this clear. > (6) The draft talks about greylisting, but fails to mention that > connection-level and SMTP HELO/HELO greylisting options exist, and when > these options are used there's an issue if the trust relationship is > established through the use of SASL. This needs to be pointed out. Added. > I also spotted a minor typo in the Introduction: sattelite -> satellite. Fixed. > The draft also spells out numbers in some places and writes them as > actual numbers in others, making it hard to search for things. I don't care > which approach is used as long as it is consistent. I think I fixed these. > Now on to the more difficult stuff. I mostly agree with these comments. They will be addressed in -20.
- [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnikov-s… S Moonesamy
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… Barry Leiba
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… Barry Leiba
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… S Moonesamy
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… t.petch
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… Barry Leiba
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… S Moonesamy
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… Pete Resnick
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… Pete Resnick
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… John C Klensin
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… John C Klensin
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… Barry Leiba
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… Barry Leiba
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… S Moonesamy
- [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-prio… Dave Crocker
- [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-prio… Dave Crocker
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-melnik… S Moonesamy
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Ned Freed
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Dave Crocker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Ned Freed
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Ned Freed
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Dave Crocker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Ned Freed
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… John C Klensin
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Pete Resnick
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Pete Resnick
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… John C Klensin
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Dave Crocker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… ken carlberg
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… ken carlberg
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Dave Crocker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Ned Freed
- Re: [apps-discuss] Review of draft-melnikov-smtp-… Alexey Melnikov