Re: [arch-d] Network Architecture in the Internet Society

Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> Sat, 07 March 2020 12:38 UTC

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From: Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 19:37:51 +0700
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To: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
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Subject: Re: [arch-d] Network Architecture in the Internet Society
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Dear architecture-discuss,

There are ones, I modify what P. Nikander did ever say, happening to have
the Internet architects' minds: How should they (play and) work on (the
Internet economy and) such important historical works on economy...?


The 20th Century Works on Economy: "Historical" Ones --according to La
Société d'Économie Politique they progressed the economic knowledge of the
century and 6 of the 10 plus one "joker" were Nobel Prize Winners...:



Histoire économique.

[image: Image1]La Société d’Économie Politique propose une liste de dix
textes (plus « un joker ») qui ont fait progresser la connaissance
économique au 20e siècle.

1906. Eugene Böhm-Bawerk, « The nature of capital », *Quaterly Journal of
Economics*.

1919. Eli Heckscher, « The effect of foreign trade on the distribution of
income », *Ekonomisk Tiksrift*.

1929. John Maynard Keynes, « The german transfer problem », *Economic
Journal*.

1933. Ragnard Frisch, « Propagation problems and impulse problems in
dynamic economics », in*Economic essays in honour of Gustav Cassel*.

1937. Ronald Coase, « The nature of the firm », *Economica*.

1937. Freidrich Hayek, « Economics and knowledge », *Economica*.

1950. John Nash, « The bargaining problem », *Econometrica*.

1961, John Muth, « Rational expectations and the theory of price movements
», *Econometrica*.

1969. Milton Friedman, « The role of monetary policy », *American Economic
Review*.

1972. Robert Lucas, « Expectations and the neutrality of money », *Journal
of Economic Theory*.

Jocker: 1970. George Akerlof, « The market for “Lemons”: qualitative
uncertainty and the market mechanism », *Quaterly Journal of Economics*.

Six de ces auteurs (Frisch, Coase, Hayek, Nash, Friedman, Lucas) ont obtenu
le prix Nobel d’économie. La Documentation Française propose en ligne sur
son site un dossier sur les prix Nobel d’économie depuis 1969, date de la
création de cette récompense.

Le site de La Documentation Française <http://www.ladocfrancaise.gouv.fr/>

Le lien direct pour télécharger (en format pdf) les fiches de la
Documentation Française sur les prix Nobel d’économie
<http://www.ladocumentationfrancaise.fr/erreur_404.shtml>

Le site de la Fondation Nobel <http://www.nobel.se/index.html>

Le site de La Documentation Française <http://www.ladocfrancaise.gouv.fr/>
Pour faire référence à cet article (ISO 690)
<https://www.espacestemps.net/articles/histoire-economique/#>

« Histoire économique. », *EspacesTemps.net* [En ligne], Brèves, 2002 | Mis
en ligne le 26 avril 2002, consulté le 26.04.2002. URL :
https://www.espacestemps.net/articles/histoire-economique/ ;


Regard,
Guntur Wiseno Putra

Pada Selasa, 03 Maret 2020, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> menulis:

> Dear architecture-discuss,
>
>
>
> Cyberspace, geography, economy and architecture:
>
>
> In "architecture" there are a moment to consider "principles that can be
> utilized to create order in an architectural composition" (F. D. K. Ching,
> "Architecture: Form, Space and Order", John Wiley & Sons, New Jersey &
> Canada, 2007, p. 338) among others there is "rythm" referring to "any
> movement characterized by a patterned recurrence of elements or motifs at
> regular or irregular intervals" (ibid., p. 382). Nikander ever noted the
> importance of noticing moments of repeatances ("Reflections on
> Architecture").
>
> # A bibliography
>
> *) Space Economy
>
> Pour faire référence à cet article (ISO 690)
>
> Kevin Cox, « The State and Varieties of Space Economy. », EspacesTemps.net
> [En ligne], Travaux, 2018 | Mis en ligne le 9 août 2018, consulté le
> 09.08.2018. URL : https://www.espacestemps.net/articles/the-state-and-
> varieties-of-space-economy/ ; DOI : 10.26151/xpk0-5t53
>
> *) Economy of Rythm
>
> Pour faire référence à cet article (ISO 690)
>
> Yves Crozet, « Économie des rythmes urbains. », EspacesTemps.net [En
> ligne], Travaux, 2019 | Mis en ligne le 9 mai 2019, consulté le 09.05.2019.
> URL : https://www.espacestemps.net/articles/economie-des-rythmes-urbains/ ;
> DOI : 10.26151/espacestemps.net-9a82-fr23
>
>
> *) Rythm analysis
>
> - Pour faire référence à cet article (ISO 690)
>
> Guillaume Drevon, Luc Gwiazdzinski, Vincent Kaufmann et Luca Pattaroni, «
> Rythmes de vie(s), rythmes de ville(s). », EspacesTemps.net [En ligne],
> Traverses, 2018 | Mis en ligne le 21 décembre 2018, consulté le 21.12.2018.
> URL : https://www.espacestemps.net/articles/rythmes-de-vies-
> rythmes-de-villes/ ; DOI : 10.26151/espacestemps.net-m2z4-6535
>
> - Pour faire référence à cet article (ISO 690)
>
> Maie Gérardot, « Penser en rythmes. », EspacesTemps.net [En ligne],
> Travaux, 2007 | Mis en ligne le 8 décembre 2007, consulté le 08.12.2007.
> URL : https://www.espacestemps.net/articles/penser-en-rythmes/
>
> # (Problems of) Methods of Readings
>
> It is supposedly interesting: notions tried in the bibliographies --but I
> red it at glance so far: a guidance to arrive at the above bibligraphies I
> need to make:
>
> (Request for) Comments is about commenting texts & Hyper Text (Transfer
> Protocol) is also about a technology may be related with such an
> understanding on reality as text (1): To the above bibliographies/texts
> there should be critical readings which is about interpretations and
> evaluations --if it is especially about planning/programming-- based on
> contexts which are among others real conditions --social, historical and
> other ones-- of readers.
>
>
> NOTE:
>
> - Hyperreality: reality as text. I tried to elaborate it in
>
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-informationarchitecture/
> 2020Jan/0004.html
>
>
> Regard,
> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>
>
>
> Pada Minggu, 01 Maret 2020, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
> menulis:
>
>> Dear architecture-discuss,
>>
>> Tim Berners-Lee said about "networks of languages" as those with what
>> users get engaged with the Web and the Internet: it was in "Stack of
>> Specification" as part of the "Design Issues: Architectural and
>> Philosophical Points"(1). So, architecturally thinking on "the Internet
>> economy" refers us to what were ever mentioned by these "E-Flux editors"
>>
>> The Internet and the Economy of Languages...:
>>
>> Julieta Aranda, Brian Kuan Wood, and Anton Vidokle
>> Editorial—‟Language and Internet” (2)
>>
>> "...
>>
>> As the role of the state in ensuring the value of currency has grown
>> weaker over the past few decades, markets have increasingly assumed the
>> qualities of language, of a "system of signs in which the only essential
>> thing is the union of meanings" (Saussure). The other language economy is
>> of course the internet, where it was thought that the immaterial qualities
>> of language would evade limits in supply and demand. But now for some
>> reason, this promise reverses. As language becomes more free, everything
>> else becomes incredibly expensive. This has made language, and the internet
>> with it, a class battleground now more than ever, because it represents
>> access to both knowledge and capital simultaneously.
>>
>> ...".
>>
>> https://www.e-flux.com/journal/45/60099/editorial-language-and-internet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Note:
>>
>> (1)  "The Internet works because of interoperability between different
>> computers, despite different hardware, operating systems, local language
>> context, and software supplier. Users of the web sign on to the use of
>> these languages when they use the Internet". (TBL, "Stack of
>> Specifications")
>>
>> (2) I added this source to the Open Forum Library of the Internet Society
>> "Consolidation of the Internet: from the Socio-Economic to the
>> Architectural"
>>
>>
>> https://w3.org/DesignIssues/Stack.html
>>
>>
>> Regard,
>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>
>> Pada Selasa, 25 Februari 2020, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
>> menulis:
>>
>>> Dear architecture-discuss,
>>>
>>> Pekka Nikander, in "Reflections on Architecture" of the previous
>>> message, mentioned little about "economy and information (security)": by
>>> this thread of "(Consolidation of) the Internet Economy: from the
>>> socio-economic to the architectural", I wander would these raw materials of
>>> thought works for an economy of the Internet:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Goods and services: Here we are. What is it there...? What does happen
>>> there...? What could we make there...? Would our sad heart --because of
>>> stupidities/foolishness and failures-- be entertained...? Would our
>>> passions -- for truth, justice and beauty -- be well served...? --including
>>> of ourselves...?
>>>
>>> Those people either are or were great, it is said: for what they have
>>> made available to many others, for what they have made inspiring --saying
>>> about acceptances and denials by-- many others: concepts and technics. Part
>>> of those things have been being through places and times, many countries
>>> and being made survived for decades, for centuries... Other part of those
>>> things have been forgotten though ever enjoyed long celebrations: and, yes,
>>> there were then revelations of what were silent before... They just took
>>> rest while kept maintained in such simplicities until other things came to
>>> and take them with new hopes, new happines, new plans, new games... (It is
>>> like a story on concepts in the making: with their histories, ...)
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Here we have more, here we lack of... There are others by whom we may
>>> talk to and exchange with... Farewell: just take journeys... (so it is then
>>> here we are in journeys or we may be there in journeys...)
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> "Here we have , here we lack of": does it not represent an understanding
>>> about "justice"...? What are about "truth" and "beauty"...?
>>>
>>> If it does refers us to a notion on "justice", or perhaps precisely
>>> "natural justice", if it is how "justice" works, then how do we take our
>>> journeys..?
>>>
>>> Choices and risks, benefits and costs, gains and pains.... There are
>>> rules of games: is it not illusive not to think/to think otherwise that
>>> profits are just equal to costs/sacrifices, that victories are equal to
>>> struggles...? And, there are as well the historical as the social, as well
>>> succesive generations as consensus/collectivities/togetherness, we live
>>> in: of rules of games, of "justice".
>>> ...
>>>
>>> The circle, or the equation, of trust, responsibility, and facility...
>>> People trust ones in such ways to take responsibilities to provide them
>>> with goods or services accompanied by facilities to work on the
>>> responsibilities...--including such physio- and psychoterapies of rest...
>>>
>>>
>>> ...".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regard,
>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>
>>> Pada Senin, 24 Februari 2020, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
>>> menulis:
>>>
>>>> Dear architecture-discuss,
>>>>
>>>> By opening files at www.ietfjournal.org I finded this out: Among
>>>> others this is one worked on by the IETF publication on "architecture"
>>>> which mentioned also about "architecture-discuss" in the time of its
>>>> beginning --I then made it part of the entry on "Consolidation of the
>>>> Internet..." at the Internet Society's Open Forum Library:
>>>>
>>>> NETWORKING RESEARCHReflections on
>>>> <https://www.ietfjournal.org/contributing_authors/pekka-nikander/>
>>>> ArchitectureBy: Pekka Nikander
>>>> <https://www.ietfjournal.org/contributing_authors/pekka-nikander/>Date:
>>>> December 2005
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "I happen to have an architect’s mind. Looking at the network of today,
>>>> I strongly feel the pain of the current architecture’s cracking and
>>>> squeaking. Consequently, I believe that we – the wider IETF community
>>>> responsible for Internet technology – need to re-think the architecture. We
>>>> need to find a way to re-create the core of the Internet in a way that
>>>> leads to a new era of innovation and intellectual prosperity. The highlight
>>>> of my IETF64 meeting in Vancouver was that I started to see signs of
>>>> interest and activity in the broader community to pursue such a goal.
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> The IAB has recently created a new mailing list, architecture-discuss
>>>> [15], for wider discussion of architectural issues, which I hope will
>>>> develop into a valuable forum over time. I hope to see you there".
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ietfjournal.org/reflections-on-architecture
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regard,
>>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>>
>>>> Pada Jumat, 31 Januari 2020, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
>>>> menulis:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Russ & architecture-discuss,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have just added Leva. T & H. Suommi's "Framework of Analyzing
>>>>> Feasibility of Internet Protocols" to the before-mentioned list of readings
>>>>> by "Add Comment" Facility in the OPEN FORUM Community Library:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ###
>>>>> To the list of readings above (Consolidation of the Internet: from the
>>>>> Socio-Economic to the Architectural) may I add "Framework of Analyzing
>>>>> Feasibility of Internet Potocols" (Leva, T. & H. Suommi, the IAB Workshop
>>>>> on Internet Technology Adootion and Transition 2013) which was ever to be
>>>>> part of architecture-discuss@ietf.org "Centralization or diversity?"
>>>>> January 22th 2020:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/s
>>>>> dTkLd7q7wXyfAnjJQlNceWPr8U
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ###
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Note:
>>>>> To clarify what I said in the previous message:
>>>>> I mean the architecture-discuss@ietf.org and the OPEN FORUM Community
>>>>> Library may be about a networked community of reading, a networked library.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regard,
>>>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>>>
>>>>> Pada Jumat, 31 Januari 2020, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
>>>>> menulis:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Russ and architecture-discuss,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The post  in OPEN Forum Community Library is about those document
>>>>>> saved in the architecture-discuss mailarchive I mentioned above plus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Arkko, Jarri et all., "Considerations on the Internet Consolidation
>>>>>> and the Internet Architecture", Internet-Draft, IETF, Expired April 2019
>>>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-arkko-iab-internet-consolidation-00
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While, I have not included yet that of T. Leva and H. Suommi's...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I emphasized on socio-economic and architectural learnings attempted
>>>>>> by those documents there--while the post at architecture-discuss emphazised
>>>>>> on feasibility of the Internet architecture in relation with aesthetic and
>>>>>> ethic experiences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is what I saved in OPEN FORUM Community Library:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Consolidation of the Internet: From the Socio-Economic to the
>>>>>> Architectural"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This documents refer to "Consolidation in the Internet" which is of
>>>>>> economic and architectural approaches and perspectives:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - ISOC Global Internet Report Consolidation in the Internet Economy
>>>>>> https://future.internetsociety.org/2019/wp-content/uploads/s
>>>>>> ites/2/2019/04/InternetSociety-GlobalInternetReport-Consolid
>>>>>> ationintheInternetEconomy.pdf
>>>>>> - Arkko, Jarri et all., "Considerations on the Internet Consolidation
>>>>>> and the Internet Architecture", Internet-Draft, IETF, Expired April 2019
>>>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-arkko-iab-internet-consolidation-00
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Sullivan, Andrew, "Three Kinds of Concentration in Open Protocols",
>>>>>> IAB-DEDR Workshop 2019 https://www.iab.org/wp-content
>>>>>> /IAB-uploads/2019/05/p7-sulllivan-three_kinds_concentration_
>>>>>> ajs_dedr.pdf
>>>>>> - Arkko, Jarri, "Centralized Architecture in Internet Architecture",
>>>>>> Internet Draft, 2019
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-arkko-arch-infrastructure-cent
>>>>>> ralisation-00.txt
>>>>>> Kutscher, Dirk, "Protocol Design and Socio-economic Realities", in
>>>>>> the IAB-DEDR Workshop 2019
>>>>>> https://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2019/05/p14-kutsc
>>>>>> her-internet-design-kutscher.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note: This post is related with another one in this "Open Forum":
>>>>>> Restream: Internet Consolidation: What Lies beneath the Application
>>>>>> Layer..." (December 14th 2019) https://connect.internetsociet
>>>>>> y.org/communities/community-home/digestviewer/viewthread?Gro
>>>>>> upId=67&MessageKey=426220c6-e41e-45c8-8872-7f0cc455f492&Comm
>>>>>> unityKey=3a9fa082-a518-475d-9e7f-ecec4ffe56dd&tab=digestview
>>>>>> er&ReturnUrl=%2fcommunities%2fcommunity-home%2fdigestviewer%
>>>>>> 3fCommunityKey%3d3a9fa082-a518-475d-9e7f-ecec4ffe56dd
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regard,
>>>>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pada Jumat, 31 Januari 2020, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
>>>>>> menulis:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Russ and architecture-discuss,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am new there, I have not know muc "how to": I think one needs to
>>>>>>> create an account in the Internet Society to join with OPEN FORUM Community
>>>>>>> to access its features:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But at this architecture-discuss, where we are now, one may simply
>>>>>>> access its mail archives for the documents on "Consolidation of the
>>>>>>> Internet" --so it is nothing new but such a networked community of reading,
>>>>>>> such a networked library:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/s
>>>>>>> dTkLd7q7wXyfAnjJQlNceWPr8U
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find no search engine facility for documents at OPEN FORUM
>>>>>>> community Library while there is one at architecture-discuss mail archive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regard,
>>>>>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pada Jumat, 31 Januari 2020, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
>>>>>>> menulis:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there a way to see the document without creating an account?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Russ
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 29, 2020, at 4:37 AM, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear architecture-discuss,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Documents related with the current issues on "consolidation of the
>>>>>>>> Internet" saved in the "Open Forum" community of the Internet Society:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://connect.internetsociety.org/viewdocument/consolidati
>>>>>>>> on-of-the-internet-from?CommunityKey=3a9fa082-a518-475d-9e7f
>>>>>>>> -ecec4ffe56dd&tab=librarydocuments#ItemCommentPanel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regard,
>>>>>>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>