Re: [arch-d] A Public Option for the Core

Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Tue, 18 August 2020 05:26 UTC

Return-Path: <eckert@i4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA2B3A17DB for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 22:26:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.118
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.118 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DyvKLhXhsEAQ for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 22:26:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90CF83A17D3 for <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 22:26:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1532B548621; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:26:42 +0200 (CEST)
Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 08FED440059; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:26:42 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:26:41 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Cc: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20200818052641.GE62842@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
References: <754DE168-DF3B-4471-A145-39C6143E538A@comcast.net> <FB381338-A278-45B2-A40B-3A065E3A3ED1@strayalpha.com> <1fd2ed7d-d4bc-c5b7-9a4a-7966d5e60513@gmail.com> <20200817074637.GW62842@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <60B2B44D-5E6D-4CB2-AD63-1A8CB846BFA3@strayalpha.com> <0e575946-dfd4-7753-8c34-47987d0b3c7e@huitema.net> <20200817164256.GB62842@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <b3044f47-d2a0-7ef3-4a0e-4e6b9e3023ba@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <b3044f47-d2a0-7ef3-4a0e-4e6b9e3023ba@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/Nbk0NO8nYlpFmyUQKVS6l3LSECw>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] A Public Option for the Core
X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues <architecture-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/architecture-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 05:26:59 -0000

Multiple parallel TCP connections to overcome TCP issues with high
capacity high loss paths even in the absence of congestion was always
a bad workaround. Digital Fountain was already selling software 15 years
ago with scatter storage and network coding gather retrieval. Still
network coding researchers  seem to claim this stuff is new today.

A lot of of the network side problems of this are the result of the
traditional, uncontrolled transit SP paths, aka: the classical Internet
model. 

Cheers
    Toerless

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 11:54:34AM +1200, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> On 18-Aug-20 04:42, Toerless Eckert wrote:
> ...
>  
> > -> I would like for traffic to get bandwidth share indpendent of the
> >    number of 5 tuple flows it utilizes (no gaming the system). But
> >    rather fair per subscriber (weighted by how much the subscriber pays).
> 
> You just broke GridFTP, used in Big Science to move terabyte datasets
> around the world efficiently. It's not gaming, it's achieving throughput
> despite defects in TCP. But the topic is very much alive there, since
> GridFTP is now unsupported.
> 
> For further reading:
> https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/view/LCG/ThirdPartyCopy
> 
>     Brian