Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program: Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT)
Arnaud Taddei <arnaud.taddei@broadcom.com> Fri, 25 August 2023 17:26 UTC
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From: Arnaud Taddei <arnaud.taddei@broadcom.com>
To: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
CC: Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org>, IAB <iab@iab.org>, "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>, "e-impact@ietf.org" <e-impact@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program: Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT)
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Subject: Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program: Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT)
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Hesham, my statement was not based on documents but more the experience I had to the creation of the incubation mechanism of SG17 which led to the blossoming of Quantum in ITU-T and then to chair the very hard consensus for the creation of the ITU-T Focus Group on Quantum IT for Networks (FG-QIT4N) a few years ago. My statement is based on what I learnt the very hard way leading all this work. However, this would be a good opportunity for IETF to send a liaison statement to ITU-T (SG5, SG11, SG13, SG17) on what is the perspective of the experts there and them send what they can share. Happy to help if there is consensus for that. From: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com> Date: Friday, 25 August 2023 at 18:46 To: Arnaud Taddei <arnaud.taddei@broadcom.com> Cc: Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org>, IAB <iab@iab.org>, architecture-discuss@ietf.org <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>, e-impact@ietf.org <e-impact@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program: Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT) Thanks Arnaud, Can you please share with us ITU document which describes its findings. Hesham On Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 9:35 AM Arnaud Taddei <arnaud.taddei@broadcom.com<mailto:arnaud.taddei@broadcom.com>> wrote: Hesham, I would like to backup Colin here. >From all the work done at the ITU, I don’t see either, how any Quantum technology (be computing, network, key distribution, etc.) is going to have any significant environmental impact. Best From: Architecture-discuss <architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org<mailto:csp@csperkins.org>> Date: Friday, 25 August 2023 at 09:27 To: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com<mailto:helbakoury@gmail.com>> Cc: IAB <iab@iab.org<mailto:iab@iab.org>>, architecture-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org> <architecture-discuss@ietf.org<mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org>>, e-impact@ietf.org<mailto:e-impact@ietf.org> <e-impact@ietf.org<mailto:e-impact@ietf.org>> Subject: Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program: Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT) Hesham, Quantum Computing is an interesting area that can provide many benefits. I'm unconvinced that it will provide a meaningful way to reduce the environmental impact of the Internet in a useful timeframe to meet emissions targets, however. The IRTF has a long standing Quantum Internet Research Group. Colin On 25 Aug 2023, at 6:17, Hesham ElBakoury wrote: Thanks for IAB efforts to create this program which also looks into IRTF research topics. There are two interesting research topics that I would like discus, but I am not sure if they are within the scope of this IAB program. Both topics are related to Quantum Computing. 1) Looking into the energy efficiency of quantum computing is an interesting topic for quantum Internet research. For example, there is Quantum Energy Initiative (QEI) [https://quantum-energy-initiative.org/<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://quantum-energy-initiative.org/%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693553272000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw2iYVQfF7Chd2JvJnUeZwrv&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693586807000000&usg=AOvVaw1joRVHoVa9KTsb6CO45amp>] which provides a "path towards energy-efficient, sustainable quantum technologies, and to possibly bring out an energetic quantum advantage." IEEE is interested in this topic, therefore, it has launched the IEEE P3329 project to look into it. You can access the website of this project here: https://sagroups.ieee.org/qei/<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://sagroups.ieee.org/qei/%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693553272000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1PvaXeIc4KdtozfPu3x0rb&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693586807000000&usg=AOvVaw0cBoP-NlthHDoz--CIm5O8> 2) Using Quantum Computing to fight against climate change and create an energy efficient Internet is another interesting research topic. Regarding this topic, please refer to the McKinsey report "Quantum computing just might save the planet" (https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/mckinsey-digital/our-insights/quantum-computing-just-might-save-the-planet?cid=eml-app<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/mckinsey-digital/our-insights/quantum-computing-just-might-save-the-planet?cid%253Deml-app%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693553272000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1xnlGTmEs4CRKNuwNzNLVn&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693586807000000&usg=AOvVaw11JP3ZUBoJTH5vtmY6iSBZ>). The report describes using different use cases how "The emerging technology of Quantum Computing could revolutionize the fight against climate change, transforming the economics of decarbonization and becoming a major factor in limiting global warming to the target temperature of 1.5°C. Exponentially more powerful machines could make possible major reductions in emissions, putting the goal of limiting global warming within reach." National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) has this news release: https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2023/quantum-computers-can-now-interface-with-power-grid-equipment.html<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2023/quantum-computers-can-now-interface-with-power-grid-equipment.html%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693553272000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0HqEDuusfoRd4T3tNB1fGt&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693586807000000&usg=AOvVaw1K-X4NjMsl517MZ0OJv1RG>. "With its head-spinning size and connections, the power system is so complex that even supercomputers struggle to efficiently solve certain optimization problems. But quantum computers might fare better, and now researchers can explore that prospect thanks to a software interface between quantum computers and grid equipment. The link from quantum to grid—achieved by a team from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) with funding from the Department of Energy Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, and in collaboration with RTDS Technologies Inc., and Atom Computing—allows researchers to perform “quantum-in-the-loop” experiments. And this capability goes beyond just energy devices: With NREL’s Advanced Research on Integrated Energy Systems (ARIES)<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.nrel.gov/aries/index.html%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693553272000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1j92_vg7jUZJYryM28hvA8&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693586807000000&usg=AOvVaw1Tyq8WmUoQhBi_cZ_WfTg0>, researchers can run quantum in-the-loop within highly realistic power systems. Quantum in-the-loop could be an important next step for using quantum computing to optimize electric grid operations with the interconnection of increasingly complex distributed energy resources." You can find more details in this paper https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10108354<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10108354%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693553272000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw2quQTwKLo04wl6-IsntBXT&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693586807000000&usg=AOvVaw17wELnMfVyRKLkUESDmehB>. Using Quantum Computing the same way can help optimize the energy usage of the Internet. For example it can be used to calculate the schedule for Internert routers as described in tvr. Comments? Thanks Hesham On Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 10:54 AM IAB Executive Administrative Manager <execd@iab.org<mailto:execd@iab.org>> wrote: A new IAB Technical Program has been formed on Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT). For additional information, please contact the Program Leads. Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT) Program ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Program Leads: • Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com<mailto:suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>> - IAB • Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net<mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net>> Mailing list: • Address: e-impact@ietf.org<mailto:e-impact@ietf.org> • To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693553272000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw32AWpt5esbFg0SrNHnyuN7&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693586807000000&usg=AOvVaw0EdYSV6mh7yEq62eUoyxNw> • Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/e-impact/<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/e-impact/%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693553272000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw2pZzgwooF8hUSH3dfq7oEG&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693586807000000&usg=AOvVaw3aesXQYo56KL3SCS1MqUdq> Program Page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/eimpact/about/<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://datatracker.ietf.org/group/eimpact/about/%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693553272000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1I6FHXLvljS4xAPKyGdMZ1&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693586807000000&usg=AOvVaw0O378oJ0QHXo6sPDPoDAmg> Program Description: The E-Impact Program is a venue for discussing environmental impacts and sustainability of Internet technology. Within this scope, the program looks at trends, issues, improvement opportunities, ideas, best practices, and subsequent direction of work related to Internet technology, architecture, and operations, including visibility and efficiency on energy and other environmentally-impacting attributes. In particular, the group focuses on Internet architecture's role in these topics. The program targets topics not yet progressed into concrete standards or research efforts in the IETF or IRTF while also being a coordination point for work across multiple WGs/RGs, and a venue to highlight ongoing work in the IETF/IRTF as well as external SDOs. The program will use the existing E-Impact mailing list [2] as the venue for discussions. The program's progress and the quality of discussion may point to the need to organize additional workshop(s) to continue the 2022 IAB workshop on the Environmental Impact of Internet Applications and Systems [1]. The program may work on documents that analyze areas where Internet technology faces challenges related to the program's topics or provide architectural guidance. Potential examples of such documents include ones that describe sustainable network architectures, and those that document tradeoffs between environmental impacts and other characteristics such as performance and availability. Publishing any document as an RFC will be at the discretion of the IAB. The program intends to have regular virtual meetings along with periodic hybrid meetings that are co-located with in-person IETF meetings. The program is open to all interested participants, and its meetings will be publicly announced. References: [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/eimpactws/about/<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://datatracker.ietf.org/group/eimpactws/about/%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693553272000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0C2vj5m1mc08cxQy3fhccJ&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693586807000000&usg=AOvVaw2MeFoGnuvSrUK-AOMqD4np> [2] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693553272000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw32AWpt5esbFg0SrNHnyuN7&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693586807000000&usg=AOvVaw0EdYSV6mh7yEq62eUoyxNw> -- E-impact mailing list E-impact@ietf.org<mailto:E-impact@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693553272000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw32AWpt5esbFg0SrNHnyuN7&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693586807000000&usg=AOvVaw0EdYSV6mh7yEq62eUoyxNw> -- E-impact mailing list E-impact@ietf.org<mailto:E-impact@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693553272000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw32AWpt5esbFg0SrNHnyuN7&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693586807000000&usg=AOvVaw0EdYSV6mh7yEq62eUoyxNw> This electronic communication and the information and any files transmitted with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. 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- [arch-d] New IAB Technical Program: Environmental… IAB Executive Administrative Manager
- Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program… Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program… Colin Perkins
- Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program… Arnaud Taddei
- Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program… Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program… Arnaud Taddei
- Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program… Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program… Arnaud Taddei
- Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program… Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program… Michael Richardson
- Re: [arch-d] [IAB] [E-impact] New IAB Technical P… Mirja Kuehlewind
- Re: [arch-d] [IAB] [E-impact] New IAB Technical P… Hesham ElBakoury