Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program: Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT)

[Arnaud Taddei <[e-mail]>]

Tx Hesham, yes this is this focus group.

If I were to describe how interesting it had been to establish it, it would probably make a good Netflix story! (1)

Let’s see what others think here in terms of sending a liaison from IETF to ITU regarding Quantum.

Back to EIMPACT, I think that there is a lot that SG5<https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/studygroups/2022-2024/05/Pages/default.aspx> is doing that could be relevant here which would mean another area of potential collaboration.

Another attack angle could be how to put e.g. ‘SDGs’ in IETF work in a more systematic manner (3).

Hope this helps

PS:


  1.  As I my career was in a roller coaster for 18 months from 2020 to end 2021 I had to gradually stop all standardization activities (2). So I couldn’t follow as good as I was at the time this is why my opinion is non authoritative today but still aligned to Colin. Yet, the focus group did a good job apart from regrettably one deliverable that never made it that would have been good on the relationship between traditional and quantum world and how to define a proper control plane for Quantum (quite of a job). The work was then dispatched in SG11, SG13, SG15 SG17 with a pretty energetic Quantum community. For example we are working to remove all the incubation queue from Q15/17 to leave it solely for Quantum as both Quantum team and incubation grew too much.
  2.  I obviously successfully managed to come back and I occasionally contribute to specific Quantum work items. But my roller coaster adventure helped me recognize the issue of the (lack of western) industry engagement in standardization and this is where I moved a lot of my energy from other topics (e.g. Quantum). Perhaps another topic but not for this thread. At least I noted a couple of interventions on that topic at the last IETF 117 plenary.
  3.  I had to do a lot of work on that seeing that ISO is progressing quite fast on that topic (not an easy one at all).


From: Hesham ElBakoury <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, 25 August 2023 at 21:12
To: Arnaud Taddei <[e-mail]>
Cc: Colin Perkins <[e-mail]>, IAB <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program: Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT)
Thanks Arnaud!
The focus group (FG-QIT4N) documents are available for members in its website:
https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/focusgroups/qit4n/Pages/default.aspx<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/focusgroups/qit4n/Pages/default.aspx&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw2b_yypiBOCnfP-HQpUCVfV>

It is a good idea if ITU-T can share relevant documents with us through liaison. To make that happen I think you need to work with Lars, Collin and Mirja (I do not understand the process, but they certainly do).

Thanks
Hesham



On Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 10:26 AM Arnaud Taddei <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Hesham, my statement was not based on documents but more the experience I had to the creation of the incubation mechanism of SG17 which led to the blossoming of Quantum in ITU-T and then to chair the very hard consensus for the creation of the ITU-T Focus Group on Quantum IT for Networks (FG-QIT4N) a few years ago. My statement is based on what I learnt the very hard way leading all this work.

However, this would be a good opportunity for IETF to send a liaison statement to ITU-T (SG5, SG11, SG13, SG17) on what is the perspective of the experts there and them send what they can share. Happy to help if there is consensus for that.


From: Hesham ElBakoury <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Date: Friday, 25 August 2023 at 18:46
To: Arnaud Taddei <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: Colin Perkins <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, IAB <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program: Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT)
Thanks Arnaud,
Can you please share with us ITU document which describes its findings.

Hesham

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 9:35 AM Arnaud Taddei <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Hesham, I would like to backup Colin here.

>From all the work done at the ITU, I don’t see either, how any Quantum technology (be computing, network, key distribution, etc.) is going to have any significant environmental impact.

Best

From: Architecture-discuss <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> on behalf of Colin Perkins <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Date: Friday, 25 August 2023 at 09:27
To: Hesham ElBakoury <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: IAB <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program: Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT)

Hesham,

Quantum Computing is an interesting area that can provide many benefits. I'm unconvinced that it will provide a meaningful way to reduce the environmental impact of the Internet in a useful timeframe to meet emissions targets, however.

The IRTF has a long standing Quantum Internet Research Group.

Colin


On 25 Aug 2023, at 6:17, Hesham ElBakoury wrote:
Thanks for IAB efforts to create this program which also looks into IRTF research topics.

There are two interesting research topics that I would like discus, but I am not sure if they are within the scope of this IAB program. Both topics are related to Quantum Computing.

1) Looking into the energy efficiency of quantum computing is an interesting topic for quantum Internet research.  For example, there is Quantum Energy Initiative (QEI) [https://quantum-energy-initiative.org/<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://quantum-energy-initiative.org/%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw2iYVQfF7Chd2JvJnUeZwrv%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1joRVHoVa9KTsb6CO45amp&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw3-VafvznNMC-L_epVYuFEW>] which provides a "path towards energy-efficient, sustainable quantum technologies, and to possibly bring out an energetic quantum advantage."

IEEE is interested in this topic, therefore, it has launched the IEEE P3329 project to look into it. You can access the website of this project here: https://sagroups.ieee.org/qei/<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://sagroups.ieee.org/qei/%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw1PvaXeIc4KdtozfPu3x0rb%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0cBoP-NlthHDoz--CIm5O8&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw3rxVF5Ubdi8NQsUJg-nYqG>

2) Using Quantum Computing to fight against climate change and create an energy efficient Internet is another interesting research topic.

Regarding this topic, please refer to the McKinsey report "Quantum computing just might save the planet"
(https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/mckinsey-digital/our-insights/quantum-computing-just-might-save-the-planet?cid=eml-app<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/mckinsey-digital/our-insights/quantum-computing-just-might-save-the-planet?cid%25253Deml-app%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw1xnlGTmEs4CRKNuwNzNLVn%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw11JP3ZUBoJTH5vtmY6iSBZ&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw2QJS7_OBvKvHn_KyUyTR7M>). The report describes using different use cases how "The emerging technology of Quantum Computing could revolutionize the fight against climate change, transforming the economics of decarbonization and becoming a major factor in limiting global warming to the target temperature of 1.5°C. Exponentially more powerful machines could make possible major reductions in emissions, putting the goal of limiting global warming within reach."

National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) has this news release:
https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2023/quantum-computers-can-now-interface-with-power-grid-equipment.html<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2023/quantum-computers-can-now-interface-with-power-grid-equipment.html%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw0HqEDuusfoRd4T3tNB1fGt%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1K-X4NjMsl517MZ0OJv1RG&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw3MIOEnhZcjBY-zFGJmUtyw>. "With its head-spinning size and connections, the power system is so complex that even supercomputers struggle to efficiently solve certain optimization problems. But quantum computers might fare better, and now researchers can explore that prospect thanks to a software interface between quantum computers and grid equipment.
The link from quantum to grid—achieved by a team from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) with funding from the Department of Energy Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, and in collaboration with RTDS Technologies Inc., and Atom Computing—allows researchers to perform “quantum-in-the-loop” experiments. And this capability goes beyond just energy devices: With NREL’s Advanced Research on Integrated Energy Systems (ARIES)<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://www.nrel.gov/aries/index.html%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw1j92_vg7jUZJYryM28hvA8%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1Tyq8WmUoQhBi_cZ_WfTg0&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw2hd96FViFCyQ3eVjuxZYo2>, researchers can run quantum in-the-loop within highly realistic power systems. Quantum in-the-loop could be an important next step for using quantum computing to optimize electric grid operations with the interconnection of increasingly complex distributed energy resources." You can find more details in this paper https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10108354<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10108354%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw2quQTwKLo04wl6-IsntBXT%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw17wELnMfVyRKLkUESDmehB&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw2CzZaO62cHLL1CW-mVwM8M>.  Using Quantum Computing the same way can help optimize the energy usage of the Internet. For example it can be used to calculate the schedule for Internert routers as described in tvr.

Comments?

Thanks
Hesham

On Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 10:54 AM IAB Executive Administrative Manager <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
A new IAB Technical Program has been formed on Environmental Impacts of
Internet Technology (EIMPACT). For additional information, please
contact the Program Leads.

Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT) Program
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Program Leads:

 • Suresh Krishnan <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> - IAB
 • Jari Arkko <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>

Mailing list:

 • Address: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
 • To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw32AWpt5esbFg0SrNHnyuN7%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0EdYSV6mh7yEq62eUoyxNw&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw2-63w-Evu7pf9DWqTy2XuC>
 • Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/e-impact/<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/e-impact/%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw2pZzgwooF8hUSH3dfq7oEG%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw3aesXQYo56KL3SCS1MqUdq&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw3eWE6X-2EprnU1Lxga86Ov>

Program Page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/eimpact/about/<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://datatracker.ietf.org/group/eimpact/about/%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw1I6FHXLvljS4xAPKyGdMZ1%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0O378oJ0QHXo6sPDPoDAmg&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw3Mh2-ynUwIvUTDl5lMevfF>

Program Description:

The E-Impact Program is a venue for discussing environmental impacts
and sustainability of Internet technology. Within this scope, the
program looks at trends, issues, improvement opportunities, ideas, best
practices, and subsequent direction of work related to Internet
technology, architecture, and operations, including visibility and
efficiency on energy and other environmentally-impacting attributes. In
particular, the group focuses on Internet architecture's role in these
topics.

The program targets topics not yet progressed into concrete standards
or research efforts in the IETF or IRTF while also being a coordination
point for work across multiple WGs/RGs, and a venue to highlight
ongoing work in the IETF/IRTF as well as external SDOs. The program
will use the existing E-Impact mailing list [2] as the venue for
discussions.

The program's progress and the quality of discussion may point to the
need to organize additional workshop(s) to continue the 2022 IAB
workshop on the Environmental Impact of Internet Applications and
Systems [1].

The program may work on documents that analyze areas where Internet
technology faces challenges related to the program's topics or provide
architectural guidance. Potential examples of such documents include
ones that describe sustainable network architectures, and those that
document tradeoffs between environmental impacts and other
characteristics such as performance and availability. Publishing any
document as an RFC will be at the discretion of the IAB.

The program intends to have regular virtual meetings along with
periodic hybrid meetings that are co-located with in-person IETF
meetings. The program is open to all interested participants, and its
meetings will be publicly announced.

References:

    [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/eimpactws/about/<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://datatracker.ietf.org/group/eimpactws/about/%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw0C2vj5m1mc08cxQy3fhccJ%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw2MeFoGnuvSrUK-AOMqD4np&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw0lD4dni3LVXUS7MEKLhXNA>
    [2] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw32AWpt5esbFg0SrNHnyuN7%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0EdYSV6mh7yEq62eUoyxNw&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw2-63w-Evu7pf9DWqTy2XuC>

--
E-impact mailing list
[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw32AWpt5esbFg0SrNHnyuN7%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0EdYSV6mh7yEq62eUoyxNw&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw2-63w-Evu7pf9DWqTy2XuC>

--
E-impact mailing list
[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw32AWpt5esbFg0SrNHnyuN7%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0EdYSV6mh7yEq62eUoyxNw&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw2-63w-Evu7pf9DWqTy2XuC>

This electronic communication and the information and any files transmitted with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and destroy any printed copy of it.

This electronic communication and the information and any files transmitted with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and destroy any printed copy of it.

-- 
This electronic communication and the information and any files transmitted 
with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for 
the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain 
information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy 
laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are 
not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the 
e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, 
copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of 
this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, 
please return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and 
destroy any printed copy of it.