Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program: Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT)

[Hesham ElBakoury <[e-mail]>]

Thanks Arnaud.

It would be interesting to learn more about the current ITU SGs 
perspective on the challenges and opportunities of the potential 
application of quantum computing,  hybrid quantum and classical 
computing systems and quantum-inspired systems to address network energy 
efficiency and climate change.

Hesham

On 8/26/2023 2:43 AM, Arnaud Taddei wrote:
>
> Tx Hesham, yes this is this focus group.
>
> If I were to describe how interesting it had been to establish it, it 
> would probably make a good Netflix story! (1)
>
> Let’s see what others think here in terms of sending a liaison from 
> IETF to ITU regarding Quantum.
>
> Back to EIMPACT, I think that there is a lot that SG5 
> <https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/studygroups/2022-2024/05/Pages/default.aspx> 
> is doing that could be relevant here which would mean another area of 
> potential collaboration.
>
> Another attack angle could be how to put e.g. ‘SDGs’ in IETF work in a 
> more systematic manner (3).
>
> Hope this helps
>
> PS:
>
>  1. As I my career was in a roller coaster for 18 months from 2020 to
>     end 2021 I had to gradually stop all standardization activities
>     (2). So I couldn’t follow as good as I was at the time this is why
>     my opinion is non authoritative today but still aligned to Colin.
>     Yet, the focus group did a good job apart from regrettably one
>     deliverable that never made it that would have been good on the
>     relationship between traditional and quantum world and how to
>     define a proper control plane for Quantum (quite of a job). The
>     work was then dispatched in SG11, SG13, SG15 SG17 with a pretty
>     energetic Quantum community. For example we are working to remove
>     all the incubation queue from Q15/17 to leave it solely for
>     Quantum as both Quantum team and incubation grew too much.
>  2. I obviously successfully managed to come back and I occasionally
>     contribute to specific Quantum work items. But my roller coaster
>     adventure helped me recognize the issue of the (lack of western)
>     industry engagement in standardization and this is where I moved a
>     lot of my energy from other topics (e.g. Quantum). Perhaps another
>     topic but not for this thread. At least I noted a couple of
>     interventions on that topic at the last IETF 117 plenary.
>  3. I had to do a lot of work on that seeing that ISO is progressing
>     quite fast on that topic (not an easy one at all).
>
> *From: *Hesham ElBakoury <[e-mail]>
> *Date: *Friday, 25 August 2023 at 21:12
> *To: *Arnaud Taddei <[e-mail]>
> *Cc: *Colin Perkins <[e-mail]>, IAB <[e-mail]>, 
> [e-mail] <[e-mail]>, 
> [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> *Subject: *Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program: 
> Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT)
>
> Thanks Arnaud!
>
> The focus group (FG-QIT4N) documents are available for members in its 
> website:
>
> https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/focusgroups/qit4n/Pages/default.aspx 
> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/focusgroups/qit4n/Pages/default.aspx&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw2b_yypiBOCnfP-HQpUCVfV>
>
> It is a good idea if ITU-T can share relevant documents with us 
> through liaison. To make that happen I think you need to work with 
> Lars, Collin and Mirja (I do not understand the process, but they 
> certainly do).
>
> Thanks
>
> Hesham
>
> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 10:26 AM Arnaud Taddei 
> <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>     Hesham, my statement was not based on documents but more the
>     experience I had to the creation of the incubation mechanism of
>     SG17 which led to the blossoming of Quantum in ITU-T and then to
>     chair the very hard consensus for the creation of the ITU-T Focus
>     Group on Quantum IT for Networks (FG-QIT4N) a few years ago. My
>     statement is based on what I learnt the very hard way leading all
>     this work.
>
>     However, this would be a good opportunity for IETF to send a
>     liaison statement to ITU-T (SG5, SG11, SG13, SG17) on what is the
>     perspective of the experts there and them send what they can
>     share. Happy to help if there is consensus for that.
>
>     *From: *Hesham ElBakoury <[e-mail]>
>     *Date: *Friday, 25 August 2023 at 18:46
>     *To: *Arnaud Taddei <[e-mail]>
>     *Cc: *Colin Perkins <[e-mail]>, IAB <[e-mail]>,
>     [e-mail] <[e-mail]>,
>     [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>     *Subject: *Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program:
>     Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT)
>
>     Thanks Arnaud,
>
>     Can you please share with us ITU document which describes its
>     findings.
>
>     Hesham
>
>     On Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 9:35 AM Arnaud Taddei
>     <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>         Hesham, I would like to backup Colin here.
>
>         From all the work done at the ITU, I don’t see either, how any
>         Quantum technology (be computing, network, key distribution,
>         etc.) is going to have any significant environmental impact.
>
>         Best
>
>         *From: *Architecture-discuss
>         <[e-mail]> on behalf of Colin
>         Perkins <[e-mail]>
>         *Date: *Friday, 25 August 2023 at 09:27
>         *To: *Hesham ElBakoury <[e-mail]>
>         *Cc: *IAB <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>         <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>         <[e-mail]>
>         *Subject: *Re: [arch-d] [E-impact] New IAB Technical Program:
>         Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT)
>
>         Hesham,
>
>         Quantum Computing is an interesting area that can provide many
>         benefits. I'm unconvinced that it will provide a meaningful
>         way to reduce the environmental impact of the Internet in a
>         useful timeframe to meet emissions targets, however.
>
>         The IRTF has a long standing Quantum Internet Research Group.
>
>         Colin
>
>         On 25 Aug 2023, at 6:17, Hesham ElBakoury wrote:
>
>             Thanks for IAB efforts to create this program which also
>             looks into IRTF research topics.
>
>             There are two interesting research topics that I would
>             like discus, but I am not sure if they are within the
>             scope of this IAB program. Both topics are related to
>             *Quantum Computing*.
>
>             *1) Looking into the energy efficiency of quantum
>             computing*is an interesting topic for *quantum Internet*
>             research.  For example, there is *Quantum Energy
>             Initiative (QEI) *[https://quantum-energy-initiative.org/
>             <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://quantum-energy-initiative.org/%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw2iYVQfF7Chd2JvJnUeZwrv%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1joRVHoVa9KTsb6CO45amp&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw3-VafvznNMC-L_epVYuFEW>]
>             which provides a "/path towards energy-efficient,
>             sustainable quantum technologies, and to possibly bring
>             out an *energetic quantum advantage*." /
>
>             _IEEE_is interested in this topic, therefore, it has
>             launched the *IEEE* *P3329* project to look into it. You
>             can access the website of this project here:
>             https://sagroups.ieee.org/qei/
>             <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://sagroups.ieee.org/qei/%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw1PvaXeIc4KdtozfPu3x0rb%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0cBoP-NlthHDoz--CIm5O8&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw3rxVF5Ubdi8NQsUJg-nYqG>
>
>             *2) Using Quantum Computing to fight against climate
>             change and create an energy efficient Internet* is another
>             interesting research topic.
>
>             Regarding this topic, please refer to the McKinsey report
>             "*Quantum computing just might save the planet*"
>
>             (https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/mckinsey-digital/our-insights/quantum-computing-just-might-save-the-planet?cid=eml-app
>             <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/mckinsey-digital/our-insights/quantum-computing-just-might-save-the-planet?cid%25253Deml-app%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw1xnlGTmEs4CRKNuwNzNLVn%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw11JP3ZUBoJTH5vtmY6iSBZ&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw2QJS7_OBvKvHn_KyUyTR7M>).
>             The report describes using different use cases how "/The
>             emerging technology of Quantum Computing could
>             revolutionize the fight against climate change,
>             transforming the economics of decarbonization and becoming
>             a major factor in limiting global warming to the target
>             temperature of 1.5°C. *Exponentially more powerful
>             machines could make possible major reductions in
>             emissions, putting the goal of limiting global warming
>             within reach*/."
>
>             National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) has this news
>             release:
>
>             https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2023/quantum-computers-can-now-interface-with-power-grid-equipment.html
>             <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2023/quantum-computers-can-now-interface-with-power-grid-equipment.html%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw0HqEDuusfoRd4T3tNB1fGt%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1K-X4NjMsl517MZ0OJv1RG&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw3MIOEnhZcjBY-zFGJmUtyw>.
>             "*/With its head-spinning size and connections, the power
>             system is so complex that even supercomputers struggle to
>             efficiently solve certain optimization problems./*/But
>             quantum computers might fare better, and now researchers
>             can explore that prospect thanks to a software interface
>             between quantum computers and grid equipment./
>
>             /The link from quantum to grid—achieved by a team from the
>             National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) with funding
>             from the Department of Energy Office of Energy Efficiency
>             and Renewable Energy, and in collaboration with RTDS
>             Technologies Inc., and Atom Computing—allows researchers
>             to perform “*quantum-in-the-loop*” experiments. And this
>             capability goes beyond just energy devices: With NREL’s
>             Advanced Research on Integrated Energy Systems (ARIES)
>             <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://www.nrel.gov/aries/index.html%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw1j92_vg7jUZJYryM28hvA8%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1Tyq8WmUoQhBi_cZ_WfTg0&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw2hd96FViFCyQ3eVjuxZYo2>,
>             researchers can run quantum in-the-loop within highly
>             realistic power systems. Quantum in-the-loop could be an
>             important next step for using quantum computing to
>             optimize electric grid operations with the interconnection
>             of increasingly complex distributed energy resources/."
>             You can find more details in this paper
>             https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10108354
>             <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10108354%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw2quQTwKLo04wl6-IsntBXT%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw17wELnMfVyRKLkUESDmehB&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw2CzZaO62cHLL1CW-mVwM8M>.
>             Using Quantum Computing the same way can help optimize the
>             energy usage of the Internet. For example it can be used
>             to calculate the schedule for Internert routers as
>             described in tvr.
>
>             Comments?
>
>             Thanks
>
>             Hesham
>
>             On Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 10:54 AM IAB Executive
>             Administrative Manager <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>                 A new IAB Technical Program has been formed on
>                 Environmental Impacts of
>                 Internet Technology (EIMPACT). For additional
>                 information, please
>                 contact the Program Leads.
>
>                 Environmental Impacts of Internet Technology (EIMPACT)
>                 Program
>                 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>                 Program Leads:
>
>                  • Suresh Krishnan <[e-mail]> - IAB
>                  • Jari Arkko <[e-mail]>
>
>                 Mailing list:
>
>                  • Address: [e-mail]
>                  • To subscribe:
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>                  • Archive:
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>
>                 Program Page:
>                 https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/eimpact/about/
>                 <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://datatracker.ietf.org/group/eimpact/about/%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw1I6FHXLvljS4xAPKyGdMZ1%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0O378oJ0QHXo6sPDPoDAmg&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw3Mh2-ynUwIvUTDl5lMevfF>
>
>                 Program Description:
>
>                 The E-Impact Program is a venue for discussing
>                 environmental impacts
>                 and sustainability of Internet technology. Within this
>                 scope, the
>                 program looks at trends, issues, improvement
>                 opportunities, ideas, best
>                 practices, and subsequent direction of work related to
>                 Internet
>                 technology, architecture, and operations, including
>                 visibility and
>                 efficiency on energy and other
>                 environmentally-impacting attributes. In
>                 particular, the group focuses on Internet
>                 architecture's role in these
>                 topics.
>
>                 The program targets topics not yet progressed into
>                 concrete standards
>                 or research efforts in the IETF or IRTF while also
>                 being a coordination
>                 point for work across multiple WGs/RGs, and a venue to
>                 highlight
>                 ongoing work in the IETF/IRTF as well as external
>                 SDOs. The program
>                 will use the existing E-Impact mailing list [2] as the
>                 venue for
>                 discussions.
>
>                 The program's progress and the quality of discussion
>                 may point to the
>                 need to organize additional workshop(s) to continue
>                 the 2022 IAB
>                 workshop on the Environmental Impact of Internet
>                 Applications and
>                 Systems [1].
>
>                 The program may work on documents that analyze areas
>                 where Internet
>                 technology faces challenges related to the program's
>                 topics or provide
>                 architectural guidance. Potential examples of such
>                 documents include
>                 ones that describe sustainable network architectures,
>                 and those that
>                 document tradeoffs between environmental impacts and other
>                 characteristics such as performance and availability.
>                 Publishing any
>                 document as an RFC will be at the discretion of the IAB.
>
>                 The program intends to have regular virtual meetings
>                 along with
>                 periodic hybrid meetings that are co-located with
>                 in-person IETF
>                 meetings. The program is open to all interested
>                 participants, and its
>                 meetings will be publicly announced.
>
>                 References:
>
>                     [1]
>                 https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/eimpactws/about/
>                 <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://datatracker.ietf.org/group/eimpactws/about/%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1693553272000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw0C2vj5m1mc08cxQy3fhccJ%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1693586807000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw2MeFoGnuvSrUK-AOMqD4np&source=gmail-imap&ust=1693595577000000&usg=AOvVaw0lD4dni3LVXUS7MEKLhXNA>
>                     [2] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact
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